Allie and Michelle at WordCamp Asia 2023!

Speaker 1:
Welcome to the Underrepresented In Tech Podcast, hosted by Michelle Frechette and Allie Nimmons. Underrepresented In Tech is a free database built with the goal of helping people find new opportunities in WordPress and tech overall.

Michelle:
Hi Allie.

Allie:
Hi Michelle.

Michelle:
I was going to ask you how you are, but you’re sitting right next to me.

Allie:
I know. This is one of those super rare, beautiful occasions that we get to record looking into each other’s eyes.

Michelle:
I love it. In the same time zone, which by the way, is neither one of our normal time zones.

Allie:
Nope. I feel like I’m on the surface of the moon. I don’t know where I am. I don’t know what time it is. It’s so disorienting.

Michelle:
It is. But it’s also truly wonderful.

Allie:
Yeah. We are in Bangkok, Thailand.

Michelle:
We are.

Allie:
For WordCamp Asia. Our first ever WordCamp Asia.

Michelle:
It’s surreal for a lot of reasons. First, I never thought I would ever travel to Asia and I’m so excited to be here. Second, because this camp was the first one that was canceled during lockdown in 2020. And just think-

Allie:
I just learned it was canceled a week before.

Michelle:
A week before.

Allie:
Yeah.

Michelle:
So many people had paid so much money to attend, tickets, et cetera.

Allie:
Yeah.

Michelle:
But the glee and utter excitement on people’s faces to be here after such a long wait, I don’t know about you. But it’s been exciting to see.

Allie:
It’s very palpable. It’s very exciting. The organizers have been working so hard. They’ve done such an amazing job so far.

Michelle:
Truly.

Allie:
Everything is organized.

Michelle:
The food is amazing.

Allie:
The food is great. We are currently in the middle of contributor day, which they put at the first day of the camp.

Michelle:
Which I love.

Allie:
I think they’re the first ones to ever do that, right?

Michelle:
No, they’re not.

Allie:
No?

Michelle:
Nope. WordCamp Europe has done it before too. But I think it’s wonderful.

Allie:
I think it’s a good idea, right?

Michelle:
Yeah.

Allie:
Because a lot of people, let’s be honest, will come to the camp and then they’ll be too tired for contributor day and they’ll skip out, which I’ve done.

Michelle:
Guilty as charged.

Allie:
And so putting it as the first day. So there’s two things, I tweeted about this, but I think it’s worth re-mentioning as well. I remember at WordCamp US a couple months ago, over in San Diego, there was conversation about how contributor day was very frustrating and ostracizing and anxiety inducing for new contributors.

Michelle:
Yes.

Allie:
Underrepresented folks, a lot at this time.

Michelle:
Absolutely.

Allie:
Because it’s just a room full of tables and nobody knows what to do.

Michelle:
Right.

Allie:
And this morning here in Thailand, we had a whole half hour of the team leads getting up and explaining what each team does and saying, “If you are interested in X, Y, Z, this is the table for you.” And that practice, I hope becomes completely standard in all camps. Because it’s so much more helpful when you understand what’s expected of you and you can find the place where you belong. And you don’t have to guess.

Michelle:
Exactly. Well, as you and I have talked about before, contribution to WordPress, a lot of people think means that you have to code or be a coder to do that.

Allie:
Yeah.

Michelle:
And so not having to … Getting those explanations ahead of time and understanding what it means to contribute without having to sit here and write code, because that’s literally not what we’re doing.

Allie:
Exactly.

Michelle:
I’m the lead along with Topher DeRosia for the photography team. And we’re the only two here that are moderators. So everybody else, we’ve had a table full of people all submitting photos and then they get, I can’t think of what the word is, rate limited. You can only submit five. And then as those get approved, you can submit more. So we’re over here fast and furiously approving photos so people can continue to contribute, but also having some really good conversations about what makes a good photo of the photo directory, what we’re not allowed to publish, such as faces and license plates and things that are identifiable information. And that if you take a beautiful picture of a lake, but you don’t make the horizon level, it’s not as good a picture is if you correct that first and then submit it. So yeah, it’s been exciting.

Allie:
Yay. Cool. Yeah, I’ve been upstairs in the community room and I’ve been chatting with O’Neil, who I’ve ever met in person before.

Michelle:
Yes, I know. Me too.

Allie:
But O’Neil is an exceptional community person.

Michelle:
Yes.

Allie:
And I’ve kind of become a co-table lead.

Michelle:
Oh, cool.

Allie:
Because he and I, we kind of split the room into different groups, like sub-community groups. He and I, we’ve kind of been talking about diversity and the work that he does and the work that I do. And the differences between where he lives, diversity means something very different than where I live.

Michelle:
Yes, absolutely.

Allie:
And as global community members, how do we marry those two ideas? How do we make sure that we’re celebrating what we have in common while respecting all of the differences at the same time?

Michelle:
And even celebrating differences.

Allie:
Yeah. Absolutely. So it’s been really interesting conversation. When they came over and let us know it was lunchtime, I was kind of bummed, because I was like, we’re getting some really good conversations.

Michelle:
We’re doing such good work right now.

Allie:
Yeah. The morning went by so quickly.

Michelle:
It did.

Allie:
But it’s been a really, really great experience.

Michelle:
For sure.

Allie:
And what’s funny is, we kind all laughed about it, is I’m the only woman at the table.

Michelle:
Oh, wow.

Allie:
It’s a bunch of dudes. Brown dudes, Southeast Asian dudes, lots of guys from the Philippines.

Michelle:
Not your usual tech bros though.

Allie:
Not your usual tech bros, but in this part of the world, that is the equivalent of the straight, white, bearded male, blah, blah, blah.

Michelle:
Right, exactly.

Allie:
So as the only woman at the table, I’m trying to input some of my experiences and my thoughts as well.

Michelle:
But what I think is really cool is that you come to an event like this and you really get a sense of how there is no gate keeping in WordPress. I shouldn’t say there is no, because I’m not aware of any is a better way to say that. And if you feel like there might be gate keeping, it may be that you haven’t actually tried to join in any of the things that happen at community. Because I have been welcomed into every group I’ve ever tried to be part of since day one, when people had no idea who Michelle Frechette was. Because I know people would say, “Oh, Michelle, anybody’s going to accept you in their group.” Well, yeah, now I have recognition. But back then I didn’t. And everybody accepted me too.

Allie:
Not so much. And what I told them, we talked a lot about podcasting because Bob WP is up there with us, so he had to bring up the podcast, which we all then started talking about how great it is to have podcasts outside of the US, how great it’s to have podcasts in other languages. And I mentioned that my on ramp into the community was your podcast. When I decided-

Michelle:
Right. Way back when I was afraid like, “Oh my gosh, I’m going to push the button and start a podcast.”

Allie:
When I was like, “I want to become more active in the community.” And I was like, “Maybe I can join some podcasts and talk about my story.” And yours was the first one I did that with.

Michelle:
Yeah. And now you’re my WordPress daughter. So there you go.

Allie:
It was a very full circle moment. It was so cool.

Michelle:
That’s pretty cool. Surreal.

Allie:
Yeah.

Michelle:
Well, one of the things that, I know I talked to you about yesterday, but so Jeff from Give WP is here and we’ve been traveling together.

Allie:
Say, hi, Jeff.

Jeff:
Hi everyone.

Michelle:
And Jeff and I have been traveling together. He’s been just a godsend as far as with my disabilities and helping that way. And because he’s such a good friend and just understanding what I need and being so kind to me. But we landed in Qatar and I use wheelchair service. And so I’m sitting in a wheelchair. We’re waiting for them to bring the little golf carts to take us to the next destination. And I’m sitting there right in front of this man as he turns to Jeff and says, “Can she walk and get into the buggy?” And Jeff just looks at me and I said, “Yes, I can.” And the man looked back to Jeff and said, “Can she walk to get into the buggy?” And wouldn’t listen to me talk about my own advocacy.
And so I just nodded to Jeff, like, go ahead. Tell him I can. Because it’s a different culture and I wanted to at least respect that. But boy did it rankle a little bit that I couldn’t even speak for myself out of my own ability to walk in a different culture. And so those are some of the things that you and I talk about is self-advocacy, but sometimes self-advocacy doesn’t even work if you’re in a culture that just doesn’t allow for that and that it hurts.

Allie:
Yeah.

Michelle:
It really does. It’s a little painful. Ultimately, it was a small thing and everything worked and move forward.

Allie:
You got to pick your battles sometimes.

Michelle:
Oh, you totally do. And you have to also respect that you’re not in your own hometown where you have the ability to advocate for yourself. But boy, that was a different experience for sure. But I will say from a disability standpoint, everything here at WordCamp Asia has been incredibly accommodating. And everyone here on the staff has made sure that I have all of my needs met. And I do realize that I have a big voice in the community, like we’ve said before. And that I advocate strongly, but I also assume that, and I do double check that if my needs are being met, that means that anybody else with disability needs is also being met. It isn’t just a, “You’re special, Michelle, we’re going to help you.”

Allie:
Yeah. That’s exactly what I think about is anytime we have somebody in a wheelchair or who needs that mobility assistance, you’ve done, unfortunately through trial and error, you’ve done so much to make sure that people understand what has to be done and your suffering has potentially made things better for the next person that comes along.

Michelle:
So I wrote that article following WordCamp US called Five Days Without a Shower. Thank you for putting up with my smelliness. And one of the things that I’m looking forward to writing at the end of WordCamp Asia here is Seven Days in Bangkok, Showered Every Day.

Allie:
Heck yeah, shower, shower, shower.

Michelle:
Whatever I’m going to title it, I don’t know. But I’m excited to write another story about accessibility accommodation.

Allie:
Improvement, yeah.

Michelle:
And how well things are going, especially in a country that may or may not have ramps and things because of, I don’t know what their laws are here like they are in the US. And so just the fact that people on the street, people we don’t know, as I’m going down a sidewalk like, “No, no, no. Go back. The ramp is over there.” And so turn around and go. So then I don’t get to the end of a sidewalk and be like, “Oh no, what do I do now?”

Allie:
Oh crap.

Michelle:
And it’s been amazing.

Allie:
I’m glad.

Michelle:
The people in this country have been so wonderful. And everybody on the WordCamp Asia staff, I don’t know what your experience is, but so far top notch.

Allie:
Yeah. So far. Absolutely top. For the first time as well, for the first time hosting it, because I mean, I’ve been to camps before where it’s like, “Okay, yeah, the organizers, this isn’t their first rodeo. They’re familiar with how this runs.” And for this being the first, I mean, they’ve been planning this event for years. A long time.

Michelle:
I heard somebody say, “Well, it better be good. We’ve been planning it for four years.”

Allie:
Yeah. Somebody was telling me that one of the organizers for four years has had merch boxes sitting in her garage, and they’re finally out of her house.

Michelle:
Thank goodness.

Allie:
So for as long as they’ve been planning this, it is really exceptionally well done.

Michelle:
Agreed.

Allie:
Well organized. The energy is phenomenal and fantastic.

Michelle:
Absolutely.

Allie:
As a speaker, the communication leading up to everything has been fantastic.

Michelle:
Agreed.

Allie:
My husband is here.

Michelle:
Yes.

Allie:
As an attendee, which is really exciting.

Michelle:
It was nice to see Greg again.

Allie:
He’s been enjoying himself. Even when we were upstairs talking about community stuff, he chimed in and started talking about his experiences. I was so proud.

Michelle:
Oh, that’s wonderful. That’s so cool.

Allie:
I was like, “I trained you well.”

Michelle:
I love it.

Allie:
So yeah, it’s been a really, really good time so far. I mean, we’re on day one. This is, what is this Friday? Thursday?

Michelle:
It’s Friday.

Allie:
It’s Friday?

Michelle:
It’s Friday.

Allie:
I don’t … I’m on the surface of the moon.

Michelle:
Yeah, same.

Allie:
Time means nothing.

Michelle:
It’s irrelevant.

Allie:
We’ve got a couple more days, but I don’t … I anticipate it being pretty great.

Michelle:
Just getting better.

Allie:
Yeah. I’m having a great time.

Michelle:
This is probably a good time to remind people we will be off next week because I’ll be traveling.

Allie:
And I’ll be dead.

Michelle:
Yeah. So we are going to take a week off, but we will be back at it the next week after that to do probably a recap of the rest of what we experience here at WordCamp Asia, and anything else that comes up.

Allie:
Yeah, absolutely. Cool. Well, we’re going to go eat/finish our lunches.

Michelle:
Yes.

Allie:
And enjoy the rest of our day. But thank you again so much for listening.

Michelle:
Yes.

Allie:
And we’ll see you in a few weeks.

Michelle:
Take care.

Speaker 1:
This episode was sponsored by the following companies; Yikes Inc. Yikes, Inc. is a collaborative, results driven Philadelphia based WordPress agency dedicated to sustainable business practices. Thank you so much to our sponsors for this episode. If you’re interested in sponsoring an episode, using our database, or just want to say hi, go to underrepresentedintech.com. See you next week.