Youth in Tech (feat. Olivia Bisset)

Speaker 1:
Welcome to the Underrepresented In Tech podcast, hosted by Michelle Frechette and Allie Nimmons. Underrepresented in Tech is a free database built with the goal of helping people find new opportunities in WordPress and tech overall.

Speaker 2:
Hi, Olivia.

Speaker 3:
Hey Michelle.

Speaker 2:
It’s so funny when I say hi in that way, and it’s not “Hi, Allie.” But Allie is off this week. She’s actually moving, so she’s packing boxes and she probably wishes she was on the podcast instead of packing boxes and moving. But today, I get to talk to Olivia Bisset. Thank you, Olivia, for being a guest on the show today. It’s so good to have you here.

Speaker 3:
It’s so good to be here. Thanks for inviting me on. Anytime.

Speaker 2:
My pleasure. I love it. And I was trying to think of somebody to talk to on a topic to bring in that we haven’t talked about before. Because we’ve had a hundred episodes last … The last episode we pushed out was our hundredth episode. So we talk about a lot of daifferent topics as it relates to diversity and diversity in tech and underrepresentation in tech. So I’m like, “What haven’t we talked about yet?” So of course I took to Google and I’m like, what are some topics in DEIB? What are some topics in underrepresentation? And the first one that … Well, it wasn’t the first one. Maybe it was like the third one on the list said generational diversity. And I was like, “Who could I talk to that’s even younger than Allie?” Right? Because Allie’s my daughter’s generation, but even Allie is now older than the people we’re trying to invite into different technologies.
And then I thought of you right away, because you are are a native tech user. I’ve met you in person, I know you. We work together at Post Status. And I was like, “I wonder if Olivia might be free.” So thank you so much for being here today. I think you’re going to have a lot of really good things to contribute, so thank you.

Speaker 3:
Yeah. Hopefully, I’ll be able to contribute some good things. If not, just expect Taylor Swift references because that’s my era right now.

Speaker 2:
Well, there you go. And Taylor Swift’s newest tour is called Eras, and that has lots to do with generations, so that kind of thing. So it’s perfect. I love it.

Speaker 3:
Yes, yes.

Speaker 2:
It’s awesome. So one of the things that I think about, I’m constantly thinking of in marketing, especially like I’m in marketing for StellarWP. I do a lot of work at Post Status and I have other side projects. So that kind of thing. And I try to think of how do we market not only to ourselves as … and I’m a 54-year-old woman, I am not necessarily the target demographic for bringing people into WordPress at this point. Yeah. We’re never going to turn anybody away, but we really want to bring other people into WordPress. So your generation is the generation to bring people in. Are you there?

Speaker 3:
Yes.

Speaker 2:
Okay, cool. I think we had a little glitch with the sound. No worries.

Speaker 3:
[inaudible 00:03:03].

Speaker 2:
Oh, no. You did get that storm you were talking about before you pushed play. Well, you’re still here. That’s a good thing. Fantastic. So when we think about the next generation, I think about the fact that for the longest time I was a Facebook user and my daughter’s like, “Oh my god, mom, you’re still on Facebook? You’ve got to be on Instagram.” And now, there’s TikTok and there’s a Snapchat and there’s probably … Threads is the newest one that’s actually associated with Meta and Facebook and Instagram and all those kinds of things. What kinds of things do you think about when you think about your generation and technology?

Speaker 3:
Well, one thing is that whenever I hear someone my age say, “I use Facebook.” I’m like, “Y’all use Facebook?” Because I’ve never been on Facebook. The only person I know who uses Facebook is my mom, because it’s always in the memes where the moms puts on Facebook. “Look at my daughter. She’s growing up so fast.”

Speaker 2:
Yes.

Speaker 3:
So I don’t use Facebook at all sad to say, but all my friends are on Instagram, some on BeReal, some on Threads. I deleted BeReal because it was annoying. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
I never even heard of it, so there you go.

Speaker 3:
Oh, BeReal?

Speaker 2:
Yeah.

Speaker 3:
So basically at a random point during the day, it sends you a notification saying, “Hey, it’s time to take a picture.” So with your phone, it takes a picture with the back camera and front camera, but you have to do it within two minutes.

Speaker 2:
Oh, wow.

Speaker 3:
Or else they’ll say they posted late. So it’s a cool social media. The whole thing is that it’s not staged, it’s just you in the present moment. But I didn’t like the random notifications, so.

Speaker 2:
Yeah, that would annoy me too.

Speaker 3:
Yeah, for sure. I deleted it.

Speaker 2:
That is so funny. So if you’re not on Facebook, it kind of makes me think about the fact that for technology, especially in WordPress, you and I both work in WordPress. There are so many Facebook groups that are centered around building community, around different plugins, different themes and things like that. There’s a Divi Builders community, there’s a WS Form community, there’s a LearnDash community. So all of these WordPress communities or groups that have been built up to have support and also some built in marketing and those kinds of things. If you’re not on Facebook, where do you find groups and community around different products that way? Or don’t you?

Speaker 3:
Well, I wouldn’t say products, but on TikTok, there’s a lot of different … we say sides of TikTok where it’s like there’s the Taylor Swift side, that’s the side I’m on, and there’s the Cleaning Air House organization side. And it is amazing to me because I go on TikTok and I’m watching these videos that are curated for me, to me about whatever topic I’m interested at the time. I get to learn new stuff, new things about that. And you can reply to videos with a video or you can reply in the comments, because my generation, we’ll just pick up a camera and start recording I feel like some of us. Others of us just in the comments and say like, “That’s happening? Oh my goodness!” So we do that. Some of us, we’re also on Twitter, which is … it’s weird because we’re also on Twitter, but we’re not on Twitter, if that makes sense. So-

Speaker 2:
So are you scrolling Twitter and just looking? Do you just have a presence there? Do you tweet sometimes? How does that work?

Speaker 3:
For me and my friends at least, we all have Twitter accounts. We tweet once in a while. We look at tweets, but it’s not our main app.

Speaker 2:
Gotcha.

Speaker 3:
If that makes any sense.

Speaker 2:
So what is your main app right now?

Speaker 3:
As a generation, I feel like it’s TikTok. But me, personally, I’ve been getting into Threads more.

Speaker 2:
Okay.

Speaker 3:
I just like what’s on my home screen of Threads. It is just like the most random content, the most … I don’t know. You see some random company saying the most random things, and I’m like, “I love that.”

Speaker 2:
I have a Threads account.

Speaker 3:
[inaudible 00:08:26]

Speaker 2:
But I haven’t done anything with it yet. And I haven’t even looked at it yet, to be honest with you.

Speaker 3:
I’m on it every day.

Speaker 2:
Well, maybe I’ll have to connect with you and you can show me the ropes. I’ll be like, “What’s Olivia looking at today?” Learn a little bit more.

Speaker 3:
Yeah. I feel like Threads is more relaxed. Meanwhile, when I’m on Twitter, I’m like, “I must do three paragraph essays style, have an introduction, have an ending, include a gif of some kind in there.” [inaudible 00:09:01] I’m like, Hey guys, I’m on my lunch break and I’m having a Mac and cheese. I don’t know. Just the most [inaudible 00:09:06].

Speaker 2:
Oh, there you go. So Threads is a little more laid back then that you would say than Twitter or something?

Speaker 3:
Yeah.

Speaker 2:
Well, that’s good to know.

Speaker 3:
Yeah.

Speaker 2:
I will definitely have to investigate it a little bit more. I don’t think I’m going to get on BeReal, but I think I will investigate Threads a little bit more.

Speaker 3:
Yeah.

Speaker 2:
When you’re applying for jobs, right, so you’re in college right now, and I know you have an internship and things like that, and so you’ve got to be thinking about the future a little bit. But when you apply for jobs or you’re looking for jobs, what kinds of things appeal to you in your generation? What kinds of things are a definite “No way would I ever go work at that company” kind of thing? Don’t name names necessarily, but what are the kinds of things that you’re looking for?

Speaker 3:
I will not name names. I promise. But-

Speaker 2:
So if somebody is looking to hire your generation, how can they appeal to you?

Speaker 3:
That’s a new question. Let me think. Well, I recently was just applying to jobs, and when I said applying, I mean applying to every single one I see. Yeah. No matter if it’s here, there, remote, not remote, I just put in my application, of course. I’m just like, “Here, take me. I don’t care.”

Speaker 2:
Hire me.

Speaker 3:
Hire me. I’m hireable. Right? But for me, one of the things that I really love is remote work, which I feel like our generation is very not split on, but a lot of us like to work from home because we figured out during COVID that we can work from home. Wow, this is a new amazing … We can show off our desk setups to one another. I’ve yet to do that, but show off our desk setups, show off what monitors, how everything’s set up. While the other part of us, they work better in office and they want to be around people because they’re outgoing and extroverted.

Speaker 2:
Gotcha.

Speaker 3:
Yeah.

Speaker 2:
I can understand that.

Speaker 3:
I feel like having good benefits, plus having the option to work from home is something that really appeals to me, because when I was looking for jobs, it was mainly, can I work from home? Does it have good benefits, good pay, good … whatever for an internship, because that was a position I was looking for. And something I’m thinking about right now is whether or not in the future I’ll be able to continue with this company or how will it look on my resume when I go to apply to either different companies or extend my internship into either another semester or full time or whatever. I hope that answered the question.

Speaker 2:
I think so. For sure. Yeah. I think back to even 10 or 15 years ago, which to you is your lifetime and to me is like, oh, not that long ago, but I think 10 or 15 years ago, and I think of when Google was trying to entice people in and they have pingpong tables and cereal bars and all of these things in their workspace that make it look like so inviting to want to work there. And I think that things have changed a lot since then. And of course, the pandemic had a lot to do with that. Right? With the work from home. And I just wonder sometimes about that. Ten years ago having your office look like a grownup playground was something that literally enticed people to come to work for you. But I feel like that might not be as inviting now as work from home is. Would you agree with that?

Speaker 3:
I would definitely agree, because … Am I allowed to say where I’m working?

Speaker 2:
Yeah, sure.

Speaker 3:
I currently work at UKG and the office that I go to is very, very fun. We have foosball tables, we have air hockey table. We have an air hockey table, which I broke once and never touched again. We have an indoor putt-putt course. We have all that stuff and it is fun. But for me, I don’t use that on a daily basis. Usually I look forward to working from home versus doing putt-putt, because at home, I’m working in my own environment. Meanwhile, putt-putt, I’m only going to be there for a short amount of time doing putt-putt. And I will say it’s really cool, because they have fake grass and I like to lie in the fake grass and code. Don’t judge, it works for me. If it works for me, it works. It is cool. But I will say that from my generation, I do think that other things do entice us a little more.

Speaker 1:
We hope you’re learning a lot from the podcast. If you have questions or need specialized help making your space more diverse, equitable or inclusive, book a consulting session, audit or strategy service with us. Just go to underrepresentedintech.com/services for more information. Back to the show.

Speaker 2:
When we were setting up this, you said you wanted to talk to some of your coworkers, some people who are also your age fellow interns about their thoughts. And you used a Google Doc instead of just posting something in a channel or putting it on Twitter, whatever. I’m curious what questions you asked them because I want to know what were you thinking when you started asking those questions and then, what were some of their answers to your questions? Can you share some of that?

Speaker 3:
Sure. The first question I asked is, so I had a big heading, which is basically, what’s one thing you wish the older generation, Gen X and millennials, understood about our generation? That was the first question. And I should have read over these more, but this is what they got to say, the truth.

Speaker 2:
Okay.

Speaker 3:
The first response said they have very different perceptive about technology, which make them look down on us, which I can say I see where they’re coming from, because sometimes I’ll be in a car ride and then someone would say, we didn’t have phones. And I’m like, “What? Y’all didn’t have phones? What do you mean? What do you mean?” Meanwhile, literally to walk from my house across the street, I rely on my phone. Literally. Not literally, but you get the picture.

Speaker 2:
I do. I do. Yeah.

Speaker 3:
Someone also said that the experience that we are exposed to are largely part of the way society was when the older generations were our age. Society changes and as do the people, the way they experience life. Again, it’s like the, yeah, car ride, but it’s like I didn’t have phones and I’m like … So I feel like with the technology, our generation is a whole new ball game. It’s a whole new thing, because we literally have information in the palm of our hand. We can look up anything from an Uber ride to what was Taylor Swift’s last surprise song. So it’s like …

Speaker 2:
It’s funny because the meme for my generation was the teacher would say to you, “You got to learn how to do this. It’s not like you’re going to have a calculator in your pocket when you grow up.” And of course, we have smartphones now that have the calculator right in our pocket. So that’s the joke. They didn’t say that to you all because you literally went to school with calculators with many computers in your pockets too. So it is definitely different.

Speaker 3:
I won’t lie. They definitely did try that on us. And then me and my classmates [inaudible 00:18:25] are like, “We’ll have the iPhone 20 by then. We’ll have more than a calculator. We’ll have a whole calculus notebook in our back pocket. “It’s like-

Speaker 2:
And you kind of do anyway because you could access anything on the web through your phone too. So I know, I like my phone too. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not necessarily the people of my generation. I’m attached way more than I should be. It’s always with me as well. So what’s the next question you ask people?

Speaker 3:
Our experiences in the tech community, it’s in the same field. So one said that even though there is more minority references … I’m starting over. Even though there’s more minority representation within STEM fields than there were in the past, there’s still much room for improvement, which is true.

Speaker 2:
Absolutely.

Speaker 3:
Because I’ve been on teams and classes and whatevers, and it’s like I’m one of the only girls. I’m just a girl. And it’s like there … I’m on TikTok too much. I’m sorry.

Speaker 2:
No, it’s all good.

Speaker 3:
But there’s an imbalance there of, what’s it called? The majority.

Speaker 2:
Yeah.

Speaker 3:
What you normally see the stereotype, that’s the word.

Speaker 2:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. Exactly.

Speaker 3:
Because when you think computer programmer, you don’t think of people who look like you and me. You think of people who look like my dad.

Speaker 2:
You definitely think people more like your dad than people of color or women, for sure. And a woman of color, even less so is what we are used to thinking of as traditionally. So I’m glad you’re breaking those cycles and those norms.

Speaker 3:
Yeah. It’s fun because I used to … In my senior year of high school, I had a project where I went out to different schools to teach them programming. It was interesting because I come in and it’s like I don’t look like what you think of as a programmer, because kids, they’re not dumb. They know what the stereo …

Speaker 2:
Stereotypical.

Speaker 3:
Yeah. They know what the stereotypical programmer looks like. And when I come in, my big hair, my glasses, and I’m a girl and I do have a disability, and it’s like, “Hello, I’m here to break stereotypes and break [inaudible 00:21:15].

Speaker 2:
All the stereotypes. I love it. Absolutely.

Speaker 3:
This is tech not what you thought before. Someone else says that technology is ever advancing and it has the power to bring people together or divide them depending on how it’s used. So it’s like when we’re on TikTok, it’s weird, because when we’re on TikTok and Twitter and all that stuff, it’s like you can share information like that. Taylor Swift, new leg of tour, everybody knows within a day. Rumors about something else, information spreads so quickly that it’s powerful. And it could either be used for good, neutral or bad, unfortunately.

Speaker 2:
No, that’s true. Absolutely.

Speaker 3:
Yeah.

Speaker 2:
It was the younger generations that realized that tickets to Trump rallies in 2020 were free and that you could sign up for them from anywhere in the world. And so people were signing up for those tickets on mass and literally not going, and then they would have this rally with only a third of the stadium filled in because all the tickets got snapped up by people who were anti-Trump instead of pro-Trump. And so it was literally the teens and twenties somethings of the world at that point in time that said, “We can hack this and we can have an impact on this.” And I thought, “Wow, I wouldn’t have thought of that. It’s brilliant.” Absolutely, the next generation has a lot to offer for sure. As we’re closing in on our time … Oh, go ahead.

Speaker 3:
[inaudible 00:23:20] Yes.

Speaker 2:
I was going to say, as we’re closing in on our time, what’s one or two more things that you’d want to share from either you or your coworkers to help people in my generation and even a generation or two below me, because I realize I’m kind of at the top of that list. What’s something you really want us to know and be aware of to make things better for y’all coming up into technology, graduating from high school, graduating from college, and joining the workforce?

Speaker 3:
I don’t know. Maybe something that I would like to say is that our brains are different. Where it’s like some people find one solution to be that this is it, this is perfect. I love this. Let me pass this down to my children and my grandkids. We will literally come in within five minutes with our cell phones and our iPhones and be like, “New solution.” I think it’d be cool if we can all just work together to just like everyone has a different brain, which is so cool. And just … Yeah.

Speaker 2:
One of the things that-

Speaker 3:
I don’t know about.

Speaker 2:
No, I think that’s perfect. I think one of the things that I’ve always said is that I could only solve a problem that I can see, but if you look at the room around me right now, if I wasn’t looking in a camera, I would only be able to see this much of the room around me. But you’re looking behind me. If you’re standing in front of me, you can see problems behind me that I can’t see. There’s a whole sphere of issues to solve, but I can only solve the ones that I can see and you can help me see more. So if we do all work together, we get a better picture of the problems we need to solve, the potential for creating, because we can all see things from different perspectives. And so I think that you nailed it on the head when you said that. It makes perfect sense.

Speaker 3:
Yeah.

Speaker 2:
Absolutely. Let’s all work together and let’s value the inputs, not just of our 54 years of experience, but what the next generation and the generation behind them see as the potential, not just the problems they’re trying to solve. So I think that’s perfect, and I see so much potential in you, Olivia, and I’m so grateful to not only be friends with you. I hope you consider me a friend. I know I consider you a friend for sure.

Speaker 3:
Well, of course, of course. Of course. We’re friends, bestie. Yes.

Speaker 2:
But I also love that we work together at Post Status, and I can be like, I record webinars and I record interviews and things, and I’m like, “Here, Olivia, make it look good.” You’re like, “Okay, I need this information, this, this, and this. Okay, here it is. It’s published.” And I’m like, “Oh, thank god I didn’t have to do any of that because Olivia has it all under control. She’s got her methods, her system in place.” Except for the time, that one transcript where it was my voice being transcribed, and I said I’m Michelle Frechette and it came out as I’m a shellfish. That was funny. But that wasn’t you. That was AI translating. But that was funny.

Speaker 3:
Blame the AI, ChatGPT. Oh my goodness.

Speaker 2:
Exactly.

Speaker 3:
That was something else I forgot to mention. We’re all obsessed with ChatGPT now. Where’s like when I’m programming, I have a problem. I go to ChatGPT and be like, “Hey, I can’t do this. Please help.” And he is like, “Okay, Olivia, here’s a three step process.” I’m like [inaudible 00:26:59]

Speaker 2:
I forget to use it. But today, somebody challenged me. I wrote an article. I had a very lackluster title for it because I couldn’t think outside the box of what else to put as a title. And they’re like, “We need this title, the post title to be better.” And I was like, “I don’t even know what to do.” So I did. I was, “Ooh, ChatGPT could help.” So at the ChatGPT, I said, “Give me a title for an article like this.” And it was like this one. I’m like, “No, that’s not good.” I hit regenerate. And the next one, I was like, “Oh, that’s good. I can work with that.” So yes, thank you for reminding me that those kinds of things exist for sure.

Speaker 3:
Yeah. It’s all just like you think that ChatGPT can rule the world when-

Speaker 2:
Yeah.

Speaker 3:
Maybe it can one day, but not soon, because yeah, whenever I ask for a cookie recipe or a crochet pattern, it just …

Speaker 2:
It doesn’t do so good, huh?

Speaker 3:
Yeah.

Speaker 2:
Well, it’s really cool too, is like you can say, “Give me a bio for Michelle Frechette.” And it’ll create a bio, but it still gets some things wrong. So you still have to fact check on anything that comes out, because it’ll say I worked at a company I’ve never heard of before, and I’m like, “Hmm, probably a different Michelle Frechette.”

Speaker 3:
Yeah. I use it for when I’m applying the jobs. I shouldn’t be admitting this, but I’m like, I don’t know how to write a cover letter. So I’m like, “Please help me.

Speaker 2:
Get started.

Speaker 3:
Use everything I’ve ever done in my life. Write a cover letter for me and sign it.”

Speaker 2:
Perfect.

Speaker 3:
Sign it out like someone random. [inaudible 00:28:37]

Speaker 2:
I love it. Perfect. Perfect. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to spend with me today using this old technology to talk to you. Just kidding, Zoom isn’t that old. But I appreciate your inputs, and if people want to get in touch with you, is that okay? How do they find you? I know you are on Twitter, but maybe you want to tell them how to get you on Threads. I don’t know. Is there a place that people can reach out to you?

Speaker 3:
I’ll be honest and say Twitter is probably best. Me on Threads, it’s just just my brain. No, I’m kidding. Everywhere, I’m lemonadecode, everywhere.

Speaker 2:
Perfect.

Speaker 3:
Threads, Twitter, WordPress, real life. Or if you want, you can just send a pigeon my way. I don’t know.

Speaker 2:
There you go.

Speaker 3:
[inaudible 00:29:21] Find lemonadecode, send out the pigeon.

Speaker 2:
There you go. ChatGPT, how do I send a pigeon to Olivia Bisset? Thank you, Olivia. And we’ll see everybody else on the next episode of Underrepresented in Tech. Hopefully Allie will be back and who knows what we’ll be talking about, but we’ll always keep it real. Thanks again, Olivia.

Speaker 3:
Keeping it real. Bye. Thank you.

Speaker 2:
See you.

Speaker 1:
This episode was sponsored by the following companies, The Blogsmith. The Blogsmith is a holistic content marketing agency for B2B technology brands that creates data-driven content with a great reader experience. Visit theblogsmith.com to learn more. Thank you so much to our sponsors for this episode. If you’re interested in sponsoring an episode using our database or just want to say hi, go to underrepresentedintech.com. See you next week.