In this episode, Allie revisits the idea of tech mentors and mentees. This time, she’s joined by Nyasha Green is mentors up to 50 people at a time, all on how to succeed in tech!
Episode Transcript:
Allie:
Hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Underrepresented in Tech. Today, Michelle is not here with me, but I do have an amazing, amazing special guest. She is one of my colleagues at MasterWP, and honestly, one of the most interesting people I think in the WordPress community right now. It is miss Nyasha Green. Hi Nyasha.
Nyasha Green:
Hey, Allie. Thank you for having me on this week.
Allie:
Absolutely. So for anybody who is just not paying attention and who lives under a rock, can you tell everyone a little bit about you and what you do with WordPress?
Nyasha Green:
Yes. So development and consulting. I’m based out of Columbia, South Carolina right now. And I’m also the editorial director of MasterWP, so all the funny stuff you see, I’m responsible for. I’m just kidding. But yeah, we do have fun at MasterWP as well. So, when I’m not developing, I am writing and I am a traveler, I’m in Florida right now, and I love to cook and sing and dance and do a lot of things.
Allie:
Yeah. Nyasha is the meme queen. We have receipts to prove it. She’s super, super funny. I actually met you… You’re the first person I met at the MasterWP, on that team, and we crossed paths a couple of times before I even joined on, so when I joined that team, I was super excited to be working with you. One of the things I really wanted to… I mean, we could talk about so many different things, you and I, about the WordPress community, but recently, Michelle and I did an episode on mentoring and mentees and mentorships and things like that. And I know that you are a very active mentor. You have a lot of mentees that you work with.
Allie:
And so, I really wanted to bring you on, to do a part two on the mentorship topic, because I feel like in tech especially, in WordPress especially, I feel like it’s hard for underrepresented people to find those strong, helpful mentorship relationships and having a mentor, even if it’s less of an official mentor and it’s really just somebody who’s in your corner, who’s rooting for you. It does so much for your career and it can do so much to catapult you to where you want to go. So I really wanted to learn from you, what got you into being a mentor? What inspired you to start those relationships? How do you find mentees and how do you structure those relationships so that you can provide that mentorship for people without burning yourself out, and stuff like that?
Nyasha Green:
Yeah. So how I got started is actually a funny story. I have been in tech a long time. I’ve been in about four years, well, in programming, I’ve been in tech a little longer. My first job outside of college, years and years ago, was a tech support for Verizon wireless, so I know my way around smart devices and computers, but programming was fairly new to me. And once I got out into the world of tech and I was coding and I was doing all these websites and doing just different projects, my mentor, one of them, [inaudible 00:03:40] Broom, who is a WordPress great. And she also teaches WordPress to little kids. She wanted to know if it would be possible for some people she was helping to talk to me. And I said, “Me?” I’m like, “I feel like I just got here.”
Nyasha Green:
And she’s like, “No, you’ve been in here a couple years. You know what you’re doing. You have a job. They just want to talk to you. You were in their shoes recently, so they just want to speak with you and get your experience.” So I started talking to a few people she sent to me, and then they would say, “It’s been really good talking to you. I learned a lot. You’ve been very helpful. Can I send my friend?” I was like, “Yeah, sure. I’ll talk to them.” And it just kept growing and growing, and one day I talked to someone from the #100Devs program, which is a free program that Leon Noel, he teaches people how to code for free and it’s self paced as well. And it’s just like paying thousands of dollars to a boot camp, but it’s free.
Nyasha Green:
And it’s for underrepresented persons in the community. I got a person from there who wanted to talk to me and do a coffee chat, and then they were like, “Oh, you’re awesome. I’m going to tweet about you.” I said, “Sure. I love Twitter. Here’s my Twitter, follow me.” And that reached hundreds of people. So, my calendar, before I knew it, was full. I was talking to people all over the world. I have mentors in South Africa, Croatia, Nigeria, China, Canada, have a couple locals, so it just blew up from there. And I wasn’t so sure of it at first, but people really, they saw a lot of themselves in me, and then I saw a lot of myselves in them. So it just turned into a mentorship program. And now I have about 50 people under my wing that I talk to monthly, and I told them I’ll be there for them until they get their jobs, and if they want to hang out after that, we could still be there. I’ll provide as much help as I can.
Allie:
Did you say 50 as in five zero?
Nyasha Green:
Yeah. Five zero.
Allie:
Wow. I didn’t know it was that many people. How do you do that? Okay. My mind is blown. How do you manage that? How do you manage that many people, that many calls, appointments, conversations without just… And you have a full time job, you have family stuff, you travel. How do you manage all of those relationships?
Nyasha Green:
I have a very, very strict schedule I stay by. And if you know me, if you knew me 10 years ago, you wouldn’t believe that. Not even 10, five years ago, if you knew me, you’re like, “There’s no Nyashas on my schedule,” because I freestyle life. That’s what people say. My friends say, “You freestyle life.” But I’m on a very strict schedule, and when I first initially meet my mentors, we do an hour where we talk and get to know each other. I make notes and I make… or jot down their dreams and goals. And I tell everyone, and no one’s rejected it yet, all the ones in the United States, I say, “Hey, let’s exchange phone numbers,” if they’re not in the United States, “Let’s exchange WhatsApp. We’re going to… can’t talk at least once a week or biweekly, we’re going to check in through message.”
Nyasha Green:
So I don’t talk to every single person every week or biweekly, but we at least exchange text messages, where I let them update me on what’s going on. If they have issues, they tell me and we talk about it for a little bit. And we communicate. Technology has made it a lot easier. I know people are overwhelmed when they see that amount of people, but technology has made it a lot easier to connect with these people. And then just to keep myself from not burning out, I don’t do any talking on the weekend. I don’t do any work on the weekend.
Nyasha Green:
Mondays and Fridays, I do not schedule any meetings or any chats or anything like that. I have four days out the week to recover, so I’m only really doing all this work on three days, but I still schedule it in a way where I’m still not too overwhelmed on those days as well. And then some people, if I can’t get to them that first week, I’ll get them the second week. a couple times we’ve had to push people to a third week, but they get me at least once a month.
Allie:
Wow. And you do all this for free, right?
Nyasha Green:
Yes.
Allie:
None of your mentees are paying you? Girl.
Nyasha Green:
Yes. I will not take money. I told them, “If anyone asks you for money coming from me, it’s a scam. Don’t send money.” [Inaudible 00:08:09], “I’ll send you money.” I’m like, “Do not send me money.” No, we have a whole semi where I talk about scams in tech and where not to go, and so I tell them, “Don’t give people money.” I’m like, “Even if you’re like, ‘This is just too good to be true. I need to give them money.'” I’m like, “Talk to me first and we can go through it together.” And some of them have sent me stuff that have been scams and I’ll be like, “No, don’t give them money.” That’s what we do. I don’t accept money for this.
Allie:
I mean, that is amazing. Like kudos to you for doing that. I don’t think I could ever… I couldn’t. I feel like I would get so overwhelmed. That’s so amazing that you do that. I’m curious though, have you ever thought about flipping it into a business or into a mastermind kind of group where people pay a fee and get that access to you? Have you ever even mildly entertained the idea of structuring it out in a paid format, or not at all?
Nyasha Green:
I have, not because I… We can always use more money, especially in these economic times, so I won’t say I just don’t need money, but it’s like… You know. We’ve already talked about it. I’m not a structured or organized person. It’s one, just how I grew up. We never really took money for anything. I’m a very community based person. And I think that’s another reason why this works so well. Growing up, my grandmother, she always said charity begins at home, and so we always took care of everybody in the community. To this day, my mom is partially disabled, she could barely walk, she uses a cane, and my mom goes with the neighborhood and make sure people have food, make sure they have their medicine. When I come into town she’s like, “So and so’s grandmother needs a ride to the doctor. Will you take her today and then take her to get something to eat?”
Nyasha Green:
I’m like, “Yeah.” And it’s not like we’re like, “Oh, we’re saints, we’re doing this.” This is how we grew up. I watched my older siblings do this. I watched my aunts and uncles do this. I watched my grandma do this. And I hope one day, if I am in a position where I don’t have my family around, because a lot of people’s family, they move, I hope that there’s somebody in the community to do that for me. So it’s more so as… One day, if I could get someone to help me structure it, probably Allie, I would love to. But as of right now, I just do so much. In my mind… It’s like one day, if I can sit down and structure it out, I would love to, because I think even with structure, I could reach a lot more people too, because I’m freestyling this. I’m doing it. It’s just me and my Google calendar and Siri right now. We’re working through it. But one day, just so I can reach more people, I would love to. I think it would be really wonderful.
Allie:
Yeah, because I mean, Michelle and I, in our previous episode on this topic, we made sure to explain the difference between mentoring and coaching. If you’re looking for a mentor, that’s a person who’s volunteering their time to do what you’ve been doing with your mentees, connecting with them, helping them, answering questions for them, all of these things. And then, a coach is somebody that you’re going to pay for services, and it’s usually less of a personal friendship relationship and more of an exchange of service and money.
Allie:
But we didn’t even really touch on the concept of mentorship, turning into more of a coaching or a mastermind group or something like that, because I think that, if you were able to grow that into something, like you said, more structured that people are investing in monetarily, that compensates you for your time. There’s more that you could be able to do for them. And I also think about, I don’t know how much or how frequently you connect mentees to each other, but if it’s a group that they’re paying for access to, everybody is getting everything from you. If that makes sense.
Nyasha Green:
Yeah. Yeah. Totally.
Allie:
So, if you’re showing one, person A like, “Oh, hey. Yeah, that email that you got is actually a scam,” everybody else is benefiting from that information at the same time. I feel like that would probably be really hard for you to do, mentoring people for free the way that you are right now. So I feel like it could add a additional level, although it would probably not allow you to be as personal, having the one to one relationship. So there’d be trade offs, I would assume.
Nyasha Green:
Yeah. Yeah. But that does sound like a really, really good idea. Thank you. That’s something. That would be awesome.
Allie:
You’re welcome.
Nyasha Green:
It’s a lack of information. That’s what I see the most, especially when we’re underrepresented. There are things, especially in the WordPress community, I had no idea about. And my mentors have been in the community for about 10 years and I’m hopping in and they’re telling me what to do and what’s what, and it’s like… And then I had to… They’re also African American and it’s like, “If I didn’t have those connections, would I even be in this community?” Probably not. They were also the people who taught me WordPress. So yes, I would love to reach a lot more people. I think it would make the community a lot more diverse as well.
Allie:
Yeah, I agree. And I’m so into the idea of there being more formalized mentorships in our community, because I joined this community in 2019, so three years ago or whatever, and I did have mentors. I did have people who reached out to me and pulled me in and said, “Here’s what to do,” and were there to answer questions for me. And they were all, almost all, straight white men, and I still appreciate all of the things that they helped me with, but I always remember thinking like, “Man, I wish I had more Black women as mentors that I could look up to.”
Allie:
And there are people that I definitely look at as inspiration, like you, Ms. Winstina Hughes, Ebony Butler. There are Black women in our community that I count as my friends and I look out to inspiration, but I’ve never had that kind of mentorship, mentee relationship with them, because people are busy. People are busy doing what they’re doing. And I’m always a little upset that there’s not more of us out there to be able to mentor each other. But as of right now, we’re able to do it… lead by example. And I think that that’s really great.
Nyasha Green:
Allie?
Allie:
Yeah. Oh, where’d you go?
Nyasha Green:
I lost you for a second.
Allie:
Oh yeah. I lost you too.
Nyasha Green:
I’m back.
Allie:
It’s okay.
Nyasha Green:
I’m sorry.
Allie:
I can cut that out.
Nyasha Green:
Okay. Sweet.
Allie:
What else did I want to ask you?
Nyasha Green:
Well, I wanted to say thank you. I feel honored to be in the same sentence as Winstina and Ebony, because they are, first of all, they are so cool. Ebony is the coolest person I’ve ever seen in my life.
Allie:
She’s too cool. She’s too cool for any of us.
Nyasha Green:
Yes. And Winstina is like… I love speaking with Winstina. It’s just the way she speaks, it’s musical. She’s so elegant and I’m like, “Oh my God, you’re so awesome.” I feel like-
Allie:
She has that Michelle Obama quality to her, where it’s like, “You are so elegant and classy and intelligent,” and [inaudible 00:15:44] worthy.
Nyasha Green:
Yes. That’s how I feel. I’m like, “Man, I feel like a fool.” That’s so crazy. They’re so cool. Yeah, it’s an honor. Thank you.
Allie:
Yeah, of course, of course. And that’s one of the things that… I know you are also a member of the Black Press Slack group and that’s one of the things that we are trying to do with that group, is provide space for people to connect with each other and to mentor each other, either directly or indirectly. And I was just so happy that space exists and that I can help to grow it. I hope that more spaces like that crop up over time for other groups of people, because I think one of the downsides of WordPress, as far as the community is concerned, is there are so many different types of people in this community, but we can’t always see each other all the time.
Allie:
So, even just through being a part of Black Press, I’ve met Black members of the community that I had never encountered before. I didn’t know that they existed, because I feel a lot of times we will just do what we’re doing, do our work, keep our head down and not be loud about stuff, and so we don’t get seen as often. And it makes me wonder how many other different types of people are out there doing amazing things with WordPress and just not being seen because there isn’t a place for them to be seen and to be comfortable. I think that having spaces for mentor relationships can really help with that.
Nyasha Green:
I agree. And that’s definitely a big goal of mine. I love, and I love, love, love the Black Press Slack. When they were so excited to hear about the new podcast at MasterWP, I was rolling for like two days after that. It was so funny.
Allie:
So supportive.
Nyasha Green:
[Inaudible 00:17:43]. Yeah. It’s so refreshing and it feels so good and it makes you really… I’m already proud of the work do, but it makes it so much more proud when you see people that look like you and they’re like, “Dude, we’re enjoying this. This is great.” And it’s like, “Yeah. This [inaudible 00:17:56] is something for all of us.” Yes.
Allie:
Yeah. It’s really amazing. Well, so I’m curious at the current time, even though you have your squad of 50 right now, are you taking on new mentees? Do you have a cap where it’s like, “Okay, I’ve reached as many people and I’m not going to accept anymore,” or is it just keep going?
Nyasha Green:
It depends. As far as the people in programming right now, I’m not taking on any new ones. However, a couple just… Well, let me explain that. A couple just got jobs, so when a couple spaces open up, I do allow a couple more people to hop on in. So it’s all like a rolling basis, but I’m also a dedicated mentor in a program here in South Carolina. South Carolina tech scene is very non-diverse. When I finished learning code, I just knew in my heart I had to move to get a job, which turned out not to be the case and I’m thankful for, but most of the jobs are almost all white, all male, and one person of color, and rarely Black people. I did not see another Black woman in my field until I actually got my job and then started my job.
Nyasha Green:
And then I didn’t see her for a year because she was on maternity leave. I was just like, “Oh my God, this is awful.” So I am a dedicated mentor for a program, it’s called… Well, I’m a DCA. It’s called Discover Carolina, where they teach people how to code and put them into internships, which was where they’re paid, which was how I got my start. I think paying people for this is very important. I was very poor when I started learning code. So that gives people time not to worry about other things, especially if you want them to quit their jobs and learn. Some programs require you to do that, but they don’t pay you. So Discover Carolina does send me mentees every six months, mostly women. I’m very happy and proud of what’s going on right now.
Nyasha Green:
They just partnered with a program called Persevere Now, and we help women who were incarcerated and they learn code in prison. We mentor them once they get out, help them get jobs and help them get out and experience a new life. I have two new women I got a few weeks ago, and they just got out of prison. One, she’s been there nine years, and one, three. This has been a new challenge for me because I’m not only here for them for code, they’re trying to adapt to life now, so that one is one I’m very happy about. And I will continue to get women from them every couple of months as well.
Allie:
My jaw is on the floor. That is amazing. That is remarkable. I had no idea about that, about either one of those two programs. That’s so amazing. I never thought about that. I never thought about code being something that somebody who had previously been incarcerated can come out and learn. I mean, have you experienced at all people learning to code while in prison? Because I know that a lot of prisons, you can have access to computers and to the internet. Have you experienced any people who have already started to learn to code while incarcerated?
Nyasha Green:
Yes. They actually learned, they started learning while in prison. And they could not use the internet. They had to use PDFs and books. And that blew my mind, because if it was not for the internet while I was learning, I don’t think I would’ve made it because I’m a visual learner. And I use YouTube and Udemy and I had some in class instruction, but it was mostly YouTube. That’s how I learned. I learned by seeing and watching. And they were literally using books. One of them, she’s telling me like, “Oh, it’s pretty cool to be able to see the problems on YouTube,” and I couldn’t even say anything. I’m like, “What?” [Inaudible 00:22:03] amazing.
Allie:
Yeah. We totally take that for granted.
Nyasha Green:
We do. We do. And they learn. They learn, and they’re in the trial, they’re in the project point now, so they’re doing on site work and learning on the job. Amazing. They are amazing women. And I’m very, very honored to be a part of their journey. They’re wow. They blow me away every month. I’m talking to one of them today and she just got her license and they’re helping her get a car. They gave the MacBooks to start working on, and she was like, “This is weird.” She’s like, ” [Inaudible 00:22:43]. I got to earn this.” And I’m just like, “Oh my God. I’m so happy. I’m so happy.”
Allie:
That’s beautiful.
Nyasha Green:
Yeah. They’re amazing. I know they’re going to do way better than I am, because PDFs. [Inaudible 00:22:56].
Allie:
Yeah. I mean, if you’re learning from that level, once you get the internet and you get all these… it’s like easy breezy. Not to say they don’t have to work at it, but I feel like… I’m trying to figure out how to explain what I’m trying to say. I feel like that almost gives you a up, because you’ve had to start with so little, so you’ve had to really make sure that you understand it. And then once you have the resources, it’s like, “Oh, this is way better than what it was before. This is way easier.” Makes me think, okay, all the boot camps should just change their perspective, everybody’s learning off PDFs from now on. That’s it.
Nyasha Green:
Right? I’m telling you, we’ll have flying cars in like four years if they implement this around the board.
Allie:
Oh my gosh. That’s crazy. Well, I think we’re going to go ahead and wrap up there on that amazingly beautiful note. Thank you so much, Nyasha, for sitting down and talking with me. If people want to connect with you online and learn more about you, where can they find you?
Nyasha Green:
You can find me on Twitter at @Ny_The_Creator. One of my coding projects is working on a website, because I have people trying to reach me, of course. I have never been this important in my life. It’s so crazy. So I’m trying to get more people ways to access me. But if you’re joining Black Press, I’m in Black Press. Twitter is the best way to reach out to me. You can add me on LinkedIn. People are like, “Oh, you’re always so busy. You’re so busy.” I always have time to talk to someone. I love talking. I’ll talk all day. Just reach out to me.
Allie:
Well, I love talking to you always, always, always. Thank you so much for being on.
Nyasha Green:
You’re so welcome.
Allie:
Absolutely. Thank you so much for listening, everyone. And we will see you next week.