Reflections and Milestones: What We Achieved Last Year

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to the Underrepresented in Tech podcast, where we talk about issues of underrepresentation and have difficult conversations. Underrepresented in Tech is a free database with the goal of helping people find new opportunities in WordPress and tech.

Hello, Samah.

[00:00:19] Speaker B: Hello, Michelle.

[00:00:22] Speaker A: I love that we. Last week, we also sang to Thijs.

[00:00:29] Speaker B: He loves it.

[00:00:31] Speaker A: He was all. I think I couldn’t see him. I could only read his response, but I imagined he was smiling and blushing when we did that. So. Hello again, Thijs.

We won’t do this every episode, I promise.

[00:00:43] Speaker B: Yeah, he’s awesome. He’s an amazing person, and I really consider him a friend. He almost makes me laugh. So.

[00:00:51] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I consider him as a friend. So next time, if we’re ever in the same place, I’m giving him a big hug whether he likes it or not.

[00:00:57] Speaker B: Yeah, he would like.

[00:01:00] Speaker A: For the record, I would never hug somebody who doesn’t want to be hugged because I. I respect people, but I hope he wants a hug. That’s all I’m saying.

[00:01:08] Speaker B: Me, I ask and I go for it doesn’t matter. Let me give you love.

[00:01:14] Speaker A: Oh. So this is our final episode of this year. We are taking the rest of December off some. I will be traveling. I will be not traveling, but we’re taking the rest of the year off and then we’ll be doing some strategies and some planning for next year.

So this is kind of like Spotify does, wrapped right at the end of the year and tells you your stats and things like that. I’m not a stats person. Sama is. So she will tell you some of our stats from this year, but we thought we would kind of go through the year and talk about what we’ve accomplished this year and the things that we’ve done as far as the podcast.

And I’m just kind of excited about it. So why don’t you kick it off? How many episodes did we do this year together first?

[00:02:01] Speaker B: I don’t know. Where do I begin? Like, I want to say something like, this year has been nothing short of epic for me. And being part of. Of this podcast and being your co-host, it’s honestly like. Like a pinch, me is this real moment. I’ve never been there to dream about it because let’s face it, it’s felt too big, it’s too wild.

And yet, we are 31 episodes together.

Can you believe it? I’m really, honestly, I thought at the beginning, if we make 10 or 15, I’m gonna be happy. But after 31 episodes, I just want to say also, that I’m really incredibly grateful to be part of this journey. I knew you before, but we never really talked. And I know you now better.

I always think you’re ridiculously cool, super smart, and a powerhouse of women. I admire you, and I’m getting to know you better and better. The only thing that I don’t like is that both of us live in different countries, on different continents. So I wish we were living in the same place. Imagine all of the coffee chats, brainstorming, or our meetings and our chats.

That would be awesome.

[00:03:26] Speaker A: You gave me a candle that said, I wish you lived next door. And it’s true. I wish you lived next door also. I 100% agree. It’s like I didn’t know you well before this. I just had a feeling that you would be the right partner for this.

If people don’t know the story, I really wanted to. After Allie left, Ali and I had a wonderful few years together. And this is not to disparage anything that Ali and I built because I think we built a really amazing project.

But when she decided that she needed to step back, I didn’t want it to end, and she didn’t want it to end. So I started brainstorming about who I could ask to be part of the podcast. And I knew it had to be another woman, and I wanted it to be a person of color so that there was the balance again. Right? So it’s not just a couple of white people talking about all of the issues, but I also really wanted it to be somebody from another continent because Allie and I, although we spoke about a lot of really good issues, could only bring the American perspective. And so I started to think about who isn’t in the United States that I could partner up with. I started to look through the roster at Yoast because Yoast had been a strong supporter right from the very beginning of underrepresented in tech. And I got no further than your beautiful face. And I was like, she’s the girl. She’s the woman I want to partner with. And because I didn’t want to have to keep going after sponsors. Right. Sponsors are wonderful. And you will see sponsors on our website. Those are, in kind sponsors who have donated media goods for us. So either we’re using their plugins or they’re helping us with hosting things like that. But we are no longer receiving monetary sponsorships from people. And that’s by design. Because when you have sponsors, you have responsibilities to sponsors. And my schedule is already so crazy that to have to take on Allie used to do that part of it for me to have to take that on too felt Herculean. But I also couldn’t ask a brand new person coming in to just take that part of it and run with it either. I didn’t think that was fair.

So Yoast was also strategic because I went to your boss before I asked you. Well, not your former boss, because he’s moved on, but I went to Taco, and I asked him for a meeting; I think it was in the evening. And I thought, he’ll see this tomorrow and get back to me. And, of course, you know Taco. Yeah, he’s married to Slack like we all are. And he’s like, I’ll be right there. And I’m like, okay. So it was like 11 o’clock, my time. It was like in the middle of the night or something. It was probably not 11. I don’t remember what time it was, but it was very late in the evening for him. And we hopped on a Zoom call, and I said, I wanted to ask Samah to be my new co-host and project partner. So you’re more than a co-host. I think people don’t necessarily understand. It’s not that you just give me an hour a week to record this. You are my partner in the project, so you helped me manage the website.

You took on production with Yoast. Excuse me for this.

I’m pretty much the one who just shows up and records now, but that’s not entirely true. I do help with that.

[00:06:32] Speaker B: No, not at all.

[00:06:33] Speaker A: Yeah, but we divide it up, which is nice, but I wanted to make sure that if I asked you they would allow you to use your work schedule and not have to try to make it. I didn’t want to raise funds outside of this to pay you for your time because I.

One of the topics we discuss on this podcast is whether people should be paid for their time.

I say that by myself, not being paid for the time for this, but my company allows me to do this during my workday.

Neither one of us is giving time away that we are not being compensated for. He said, “Well, I have to check because we’ve been bought by a new fold, and I need to make sure that everybody’s okay with it.” I said, “Okay, let me know as soon as you know. The next day.” He said, “Yep, it’s a. Go ahead, go ahead and ask Samah.” So I messaged you, crickets.

[00:07:23] Speaker B: And I’m really active in this.

[00:07:28] Speaker A: Email. Must have gone to, like, spam or something. I get no reply. So after a week, I replied, I said to Taco, I’m like, I’ve been trying to reach Samah. She’s not getting back to me. He’s like, let me say something to her. And then, like, you’re like, oh, I’m sorry, I didn’t see that you had messaged me. What can I help you with? And I’m like, can you hop on a call with me? And I don’t know what was going through your head at that time. Like, why does she want to be with me? And I was like. And so you get on a call. And I’m like, so you know that Ali’s left the project. And you’re like, yeah, yeah. I’m like, will you be my new co host? And you started crying. And I was like, I hope those are happy tears.

Of course, you said yes. But what goes through your head when you think, “Why does Michelle want to meet with you?”

[00:08:09] Speaker B: Oh, my good. No, the thing is, like, I thought, like, something.

Did I do something? Did I communicate about something? Then I thought maybe she was asking me for information about an event or what we do with the funds. Okay, then I’m just gonna go for it. And when you ask me, I remember I was so happy because, like, I always think that you’re super cool and this powerful woman, smart woman. And, like, you asked me, you chose me. It meant and still means the world to me. And that was like, I was really happy. And I was really happy. And, and I remember I cried. You cried.

[00:08:45] Speaker A: And I was like, ah, we did, we did.

[00:08:47] Speaker B: I was super excited. And I remember after it, I told Taco I was telling everyone at yours, and I even told my sisters. I called my brother, who lives in the States. He didn’t know why I was happy about it, but he told me to go for it. I’m proud of you.

[00:09:00] Speaker A: Whatever it is, I’m happy, my husband.

[00:09:02] Speaker B: I sent him your, your Twitter. I sent him the website and everything, too. I was talking on the phone. I was like, I’m happy, you know, and he didn’t give it. And then he told me, okay, you’re gonna be in the podcast. What? You can argue to me you’re happy. Let’s focus on this point now.

It was, it was, I was really. And a lot of people are on our leadership team or in Yoast. They were really sending me these slacks. They’re proud of me. Congratulations. And some of them said, like, wow, you’re going to host it with Michelle. So that, that is. I’m honored. So.

[00:09:39] Speaker A: Yeah. So, do you know how many women I asked before you? Zero. You were the very first person on top of my list.

[00:09:46] Speaker B: I’m so shy.

And I’m happy, and I’m proud.

[00:09:50] Speaker A: I am proud of you. I’m so happy you’re with me here and are all in and helping with everything.

[00:09:56] Speaker B: So I’m happy to help. Yeah.

[00:09:59] Speaker A: Yeah. And we have had some amazing episodes this year that have got people talking about things and contributing to the conversation. And I’m proud of the work that we do here. I mean, the episode I had before you joined was me with Chris Ford called Old Broads Working in Tech because that’s what she calls herself and what it’s like to be like; I’m 56 now. I’m going to be 57 next year. And I am.

I don’t look it, but I am one of the older people in technology right now, at least in the WordPress space, who’s doing and making that kind of thing. And to all the other women who are my age, I see you, and I appreciate the work that you do as well. But then the next episode was new co-host and partner, and that was introducing you. The episode we did after that was called Disconnecting from Work. We talked about how we mustn’t be so submerged in our work that it’s a 247 kind of thing and that balance is important.

That was a lightweight one to start with, which was good. But then, honestly, you were like, let’s talk about some of the hard-hitting issues. And so we really have this year. What are some of the issues in your episodes that you’ve enjoyed? I will mute myself to blow my nose while you talk about it.

[00:11:18] Speaker B: Mine was the most epic one. It’s like it’s the first one I started feeling. Yes, this is what we want to talk about: we chose the bear. You know, that was epic. When we were talking about Harrison Butker, the anti-feminist, anti-LGBTQ, anti-abortion, anti-Ivf, anti-everything in life, and the speech he made the Homemaker. And I remember it was like, yes, this is something really important to talk about. Of course, it was not super related in tech, but it’s super for us as women. And that was one of my favorite episodes. I felt so connected to it. Of course, I have a lot of them. So, I think the second one, I will say, was the digital divide. Yeah, we talked a lot about the digital divide. What is it what is the effect, and how does it affect people on both sides how can we improve it, and how it can reflect also on our lives?

It was touching for me because I was from that community. We don’t have access, we don’t have the financial resources, or we cannot buy it. There. It’s. It’s not there to buy it. So that also was a very dear episode to my heart. Yeah.

[00:12:52] Speaker A: One of the ones that hit me deepest, I think, was having Miriam and Maya talk about head coverings, too. And I loved the conversation that happened in the community about that. We had a Jewish woman who had previously been married and had to cover her hair. And then a woman who wears hijab and what that means and how so many, especially Americans, but I think in Europe as well, we talked about the fact that France has banned hijab, and there was a woman who couldn’t play at the Olympics because she wore hijab. But we talked about how, even though so many people have been trained or indoctrinated to think that hair coverings and head coverings are oppressive to women, that, yes, in some cases they are, but that many women choose to honor the heritage and that that is where they find comfort and safety. And so, I thought the conversation that came up around that in social media, especially on Facebook, was really powerful. And I loved that we kind of led that conversation for technology.

[00:13:57] Speaker B: Yeah, I love it, too. It was a really good episode.

[00:14:02] Speaker A: And then two episodes later. Well, then we had an episode on transitioning in tech where Kira came and talked about her transition, public transition from her assigned male at birth to a trans woman. Then, the week after that, we talked about when women don’t meet your definition of feminine, which was about the. I forgot her name. The. The boxer at the Olympics who. Everybody was saying she was Simone. Simone.

[00:14:28] Speaker B: No, no, that’s.

[00:14:28] Speaker A: Oh, no, that was Simone later. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’m sorry, not calling her name right now. Still, we talked a lot about the Olympics this summer because of how things that were happening there are actually reflected in the tech community and the greater community as well, which I thought was pretty interesting.

Excuse me.

[00:14:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Her name was Imane Khelif now. It just came to my head.

[00:14:49] Speaker A: Yes, I know. I could see her face but couldn’t think of her name. So yeah, I thought that was pretty powerful too.

[00:14:56] Speaker B: Yeah, it was. It was amazing. I think it was. I love that sometimes we go out, and I hope people also like it that we are talking about everything related to being present in everything and not only in the tech itself or at the end; talking about Iman was one of the episodes also I started feeling like, yeah, I love the conversation of what we are raising.

One of the things also really one of the episodes, I feel honestly being with you also empowered me as a woman, made me really focus on myself. Of course, we talked about mental health issues and taking care of ourselves, but in one of the episodes that we shared, we had an honest conversation and shared our lives; it was the road talk when we shared our struggles and mental health. And what’s happening in the world?

I remember a lot of my colleagues; three were listening, and they reached out to me because I was not really. I’m that positive smile on my face person. And when they heard it, they got touched and said, that’s really powerful for both of us to share our life. What happened to us? That was. I felt that it was kind of with reaching the end of the year that I, from all of our conversations, said, okay, this is me. This is what happened to me. This is who I am, and it’s okay; let me take care of myself. And yeah, that was also one of them.

[00:16:34] Speaker A: Some women reached out to me after that episode as well, listening to that, to say, I had no idea some of the things that you’ve been through in your life, and you know that they were strong supporters and we’re sorry that I’d endured the things that I had. But also really empowered by the fact that I could come and talk about those things, too.

We also talked about not only reproductive health choices and societal pressures but we also talked about women getting periods. Right. How many women come on and talk about technology, like being in technology, which is still male-driven? Right. Like male-dominated, I should say there are probably as many women as men in tech at this point. I don’t know the actual numbers, but men don’t like to hear about periods. I mean, empowered men do, and feminist men do. They don’t care. Right. It’s a body function, like get over it kind of thing. But talking about the fact that some of us, I mean, I’m on the other side of that now, but some of us Were severely affected by that. I, I have lost days of my life to passing out because of the pain of, you know, menstruation. And so, I am being open and frank about some of those things. I hope that the way we talk about these things helps other women feel safer and more secure about being able to discuss these kinds of things. And if you are in that much pain, like we said in that episode, the pain of a period for some women is equal to what a man experiences with a heart attack.

That’s not serious. We should not have to endure that kind of pain. And when we do endure that kind of pain, we should have people accommodating how we’re feeling. For example, if you have to bring a hot water bottle to work so that you can get through your day, and those kinds of things. Men shouldn’t be turned off by the fact that we are dealing with the things we have to deal with to continue to work through those kinds of issues.

For sure.

[00:18:37] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it’s.

I agree with you. Sometimes, just open the conversation door to start talking about things. It’s okay to talk about them, to express our feelings. Talking is the first step in changing things and helping people understand.

And I remember we talked about it. It’s okay not to be okay or to have those things. It’s super normal. Yeah. My favorite episode with you was Knowledge is Power, too. It’s one of my favorites. All of them. My favorite.

[00:19:10] Speaker A: I know. I love them all, too.

[00:19:13] Speaker B: I have 31 small babies running around.

[00:19:16] Speaker A: How do I pick one? Sophie Straits, you.

[00:19:21] Speaker B: Yeah, I remember in that episode and the Knowledge is Power we talk about really the importance of education and because also the hate raising against women and women education and what’s important for women and girls around the world. I shared my experience, where I came from, and how education was important. I want to empower my mother, sisters, and me in life. And that is how it’s really important. And truly, I remember the title Knowledge is power. Absolutely. It’s gift power. I love our conversation, and I hope one of us hears it and gets benefits or just focuses on empowering herself more with education.

[00:20:08] Speaker A: I also love that I probably took at least six months to get these guests on the episode. But having the people from role mobility come in and talk about disability and disability accommodation, and one of them is a wheelchair user.

She lives in her wheelchair. I use a wheelchair or my mobility device, my scooter when I’m out and about, and I walk with a cane at home.

But having her and her partner there, a business partner, talking about building an app to help people like me and like her be able to navigate the world on wheels. I was just so grateful. And they were so fun. They were such a fun conversation.

[00:20:53] Speaker B: They were so fun. Yeah. I remember this is one of the TikTok episodes. He told me they, they’re cool. He just listened to us, and then he came. I remember he told me, like, this is an amazing app. And I’m. He told me they’re doing great. Yeah, I remember the conversation was amazing. And what they’re doing is awesome. It’s also, it’s. It’s nice to have an idea come up to this amazing app that’s helping a lot of people. Yeah.

Yeah. One of the episodes that also really helped me grow personally was Empower Your Voice, the art of self-advocacy.

[00:21:28] Speaker A: Yes.

[00:21:28] Speaker B: I’m sorry if I’m pronouncing her name right or butchering her name to make it right. Shelvi Wakulo. I remember the way she was talking. She also shared her life story, her book, and her amazing YouTube one-minute videos. It helped me personally after one month and something; after watching her YouTube videos and reading her book, it was my first time going to do something.

I would have a job at the company, a position. And then I went, I can do that because I have this and this. I have never done that before. I will never. And I was reaching, like, yes, yes.

[00:22:09] Speaker A: Yeah. She was awesome. And bless her, she got up so early because she’s on the west coast of the United States, and you’re all the way over in the Netherlands. So, finding a time in between was difficult. Yeah, she was terrific. Absolutely. We also leaned into talking this year about self-advocacy and things like that, but we continue to talk about some of the issues around race and ethnicity.

Specifically, I’m looking right now at one of our episodes, Cyber Crimes, Hidden Targets, and why underrepresented groups face greater risks.

I may have mentioned my mother was targeted and lost money and then was able to dispute it at the bank and get it back.

But the aging population is hit by that. That hits undereducated populations. And people who are assumed to be undereducated, including a lot of our racial minorities here, ethnic minorities here in the United States, really, when you think about it, trying to help educate people about things like that to protect themselves from cybercrime, I think, was also important. And I was proud of what we did there, too.

One thing I did want to talk about, too, is we interviewed Kiera Howe, who is a trans woman, and the day that her episode was supposed to be published was the week that Iman and the female boxer was, was like this. It was all over Twitter; it was all over social media. And all of the right-wing people are like, they shouldn’t let a man play. And it’s just, you know, and she’s not a man, and she’s not even a trans woman. She’s a biological woman. But all of that was happening in the media the same week that we were about to publish an episode about an actual trans woman. And so I reached out to Kira before we hit publish on that to make sure she was okay with it because I. We talked in her episode; we talked about safety and how it’s not safe for trans men and trans women in certain areas if people know that they are trans. So, for example, Kira mentioned that if her dad in Florida, when they were on vacation in Florida, had misgendered her, it would have been very dangerous. It could have been a very dangerous situation because the right wing in Florida does not take kindly to trans issues.

And so I did reach out to her, and I said, are you okay with us publishing this, or do you want me to wait a few weeks? We can skip a week and put it out after the controversy dies. And she said, no, this is reality. Please publish it. And I was proud of her for not being afraid to let us publish that episode, too. And then we followed it up the next week, talking specifically about Imani in our podcast. So, yeah, I’m proud that I always say we don’t hold any punches. We go for the jugular when talking about real issues for underrepresented people, specifically in technology. But as we have said once or twice, when discussing women’s issues, women exist in technology.

Women’s issues are tech issues. Right? Women’s issues, underrepresented issues, and ethnic minority issues exist in the technological world, too. Those issues don’t only exist outside of technology. So, we don’t have to necessarily find the connection to a specific tech event or technology to say that these issues are real and exist for people in the tech world, too. That is why we will continue to discuss them. And underrepresented in tech, for sure.

We’ve had a good year. Frog in my throat. It’s 8 am when we record this. And so you’re the first person I’ve talked to most of those days. So I’ve always liked dealing with that frog in my throat. I swear, people are probably like, is she sick? No, she’s not sick. She just never spoke.

[00:26:14] Speaker B: We did really well this year.

I think the best is yet to come.

[00:26:19] Speaker A: Absolutely.

[00:26:20] Speaker B: Next year will also be awesome.

[00:26:22] Speaker A: Yes.

[00:26:23] Speaker B: But all of what we did, I think we challenge. We talk about things, and real things matter, and we pick topics really with the focus on everyone talking about and sometimes even topics people don’t want to talk about. And I love the way we approach them and the way we talk about everything. Of course, we’re not going to please everyone, but I’m still proud of what we did. I’m proud of you; I’m proud of myself. All of our amazing gifts, what we did this year, and I believe next year, like to keep going the same way and talk about other topics like make it more.

Absolutely.

[00:27:09] Speaker A: And to that end, I invite our listeners and the people who read our blog because, let’s face it, not everybody who is a fan of, I don’t know if fans the right word, but the follower of underrepresented in tech is a hearing person. So, some people are reading the transcripts on our site instead of listening to the episodes, and I’d love that, too. But for anybody who partakes of underrepresented in tech, I would love to hear the issues impacting them so we can discuss them.

We’re open to having guests on the podcast. Obviously, we’ve done that a few times this year. We are open to just discussing the subjects that you bring to us. We don’t have to mention your name. We are happy to talk about things from our point of view. And the research that Samah does because I don’t do her research. She sends me all the things to read. I do some research. I’m not going to say I am educated on our subjects.

[00:28:07] Speaker B: Yeah, you do.

[00:28:09] Speaker A: But you are the one who is like, let’s read everything.

But we don’t need to bring you into it. If you would prefer to just give us information and ideas to talk about, we can keep you anonymous, or we can include you if you prefer to be included. But this is our podcast; this is our project. But it’s not just for the two of us. If it was that, we would just have a conversation every week and not record it. We do this project because we want to level the playing field for underrepresented people in the technology world and hopefully in the greater world, too, but specifically in the world that we work in.

And so, what did we talk about some of the things? Oh, we didn’t talk about this like we talked about I.D. Remember we talked about Jewel having written a letter that got a lot of conversation as well—positive conversation. Nobody was saying anything negative about any of our episodes this year, at least not to us.

[00:29:09] Speaker B: Exactly.

[00:29:10] Speaker A: If you’re talking about us behind our back, we don’t care.

But yeah, we’re happy to talk about things that are difficult for people to talk about because we are secure in our feelings and our beliefs and ourselves to be able to talk about those things. So if you, Dear listener, dear reader, I feel like Dear Abby when I say that if you have ideas, topics, or want to bring something to us, if you want to be on the podcast, we would love to hear from you. You can DM either of us in any of the million places I am or the two that survive.

[00:29:49] Speaker B: Yes, I’m growing.

[00:29:51] Speaker A: I’m growing, growing.

[00:29:52] Speaker B: It’s like X and Blue sky.

[00:29:54] Speaker A: So you can DM us on X on blue sky. You can do that only we don’t have underrepresented in tech on Bluesky yet, but we will.

I didn’t think of it till just now ,so also, if you know either of us, you can email through our website, underrepresented tech.com, or you can DM us on Slack. We are available for your ideas and would love to bring those topics out in public and on our podcast.

[00:30:25] Speaker B: Yeah, and I wish everyone happy holidays who are listening to us this year was not easy worldwide for a lot of people, and also, I feel the future for women still needs to fight for our rights, for equality, for respect for especially some women are fighting it in more countries than other but still all of us around the world we’re one big sisterhood and yeah and we will be December honestly my brain so I would feel free to reach out if somebody wants to have a topic for to want to discuss as Michelle said and yeah and thanks Michelle for everything. I thank you.

He made me really happy, and he did something I’m really proud of. I’m really growing a lot doing this with you.

[00:31:22] Speaker A: I am grateful that you took the leap of faith in me, the podcast, and the project to join me. So you jumped right in with both feet. And I’m so grateful for you, for Yoast supporting you, of course, and for Liquid Web supporting me through this. I think it’s just a wonderful partnership between us and our companies and all of that.

Yeah, I’m pretty excited about the future. And I just want to say, though, Samah, that just because we’re not recording for the next three weeks, I will be blowing up your WhatsApp at least three times a week.

[00:31:55] Speaker B: That’s why I was worried. I said, I’m going to miss you, but then I said, okay. Anyway, when we book for the podcast, we’ll open and chat. You know, like, hey, what are you doing?

[00:32:04] Speaker A: Absolutely.

Between sending each other TikToks every night.

[00:32:11] Speaker B: You know what? We’re gonna. We’re gonna invite Dice. You know, for once, we should.

[00:32:16] Speaker A: We should.

[00:32:19] Speaker B: Invite him.

[00:32:20] Speaker A: Yeah, that’s what we should do. We should have an episode next year with some men who identify as feminists and support feminine.

[00:32:28] Speaker B: Oh, my God. All of my colleagues. A lot of excellent them I’m thinking about now. Ty, Sneels, Raymond. I have a lot of really amazing colleagues.

[00:32:40] Speaker A: We’ll pick a couple, and we’ll see if they’re willing to come on camera with us. But. But yes, happy holidays to everybody who celebrates a holiday this year. Happy New Year to everybody. Whether you’re celebrating now or December 31st or later, I know there are people who celebrate New Year’s. Different places, different times. Happy Kwanzaa. Happy Hanukkah, Happy everything. I am just so grateful that we have this ability to reach out to people and wish everyone the best. The safest the best and the happiest. End of this year, our world is in turmoil. We have wars that are. That continues to be fought, and our hearts go out to the people who are affected by those, for sure. Not everybody gets a Merry Christmas or a Happy New Year, and we 100% understand that, but we do wish everyone the best. Thank you.

[00:33:33] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. Okay.

[00:33:36] Speaker A: We’ll see everybody on underrepresented, Intact next year.

[00:33:40] Speaker B: Thanks for being.

Yeah. Bye.

[00:33:45] Speaker A: If you’re interested in using our database, joining us as a guest for an episode, or just want to say Hi, go to underrepresentedintech.com. see you next week.