Scared but Strong: Facing Fear, Overcoming Hate, and Finding Resilience

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to the Underrepresented in Tech podcast, where we talk about issues of underrepresentation and have difficult conversations. Underrepresented in Tech is a free database with the goal of helping people find new opportunities in WordPress and tech.

Hello, Samah.

[00:00:19] Speaker B: Hello, Michelle.

[00:00:21] Speaker A: Is it bad that I like singing to you? When we first get on here, I’m.

[00:00:24] Speaker B: Like, not at all. I want to say secret, like, you know, Thijs, you never met him, but he’s this amazing. Our amazing colleagues who help us. Yeah, he’s really awesome. Every time when he sees me, he just, like, tries to sing it the way you say it, and I find it the cutest thing ever. And we love it. So.

[00:00:46] Speaker A: Okay, well, then I’m never gonna stop.

[00:00:48] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, just go for it.

[00:00:50] Speaker A: Just go for it. That’s right. Well, we had a topic that we were looking at that we. I think we might have a little bit last week, but we’re going to keep it. We’re still going to put that one on the back burner. Because of what’s happening here in the United States right now.

It’s heartbreaking, it’s scary. It’s.

I don’t even know the right words for it. It’s actually kind of terrifying. And we could talk about some of the different things that I’ve encountered here. I posted the day after the election that I’ve always been afraid to be a woman in the United States, but now I’m terrified.

And most people have agreed and said it’s terrifying right now.

But then some people have told me, people I’ve known for a long time, you know, then, well, go live someplace else. You know, people that I had counted as friends said, go live someplace else. People in WordPress have told me that if you don’t like it here, go live elsewhere. And, I mean, not to worry. They did not offend me. I’ve just deleted their comments, blocked them, and moved along. I wish you could delete comments on Twitter, but you can’t. However, I have deleted their comments from Facebook.

And even though these are people I knew from childhood, I’m like, done. I’m just done. If that’s how they want to talk to somebody, expressing their own fear, then they can just take a long time. As my mom used to say, take a long walk off a short pier.

So, it’s only been two weeks since the election.

It hasn’t even been two full weeks since we learned the result of the election.

Sorry, I have a frog today.

But it’s really scary because this weekend, and I saw it yesterday in the news and saw it again this morning, there were people who identified as neo-Nazis carrying Nazi flags in Ohio of all places, just like, you know, anywhere USA kind of thing, shouting horrible things, including like the leaders got a megaphone. And we’re not talking about hundreds of people. This is like 10 people. All men, of course, because, you know, they wouldn’t want a woman to do anything. But I’m glad it’s all. And then they’ve got their faces covered, so they’re afraid to even tell you that they’re racist because they hide behind these, these face coverings and hats, but carrying black flags with a swastika on them, shouting things like non-whites are parasites and other antisemitic and anti-black anti, you know, everything kinds of language. And it’s not illegal for them to do that.

It’s perfectly legal for them to do that. And this woman who was videoing it was afraid. She was across the street, and as she videoed it, she turned them on herself. She’s like, I can’t believe this is the America I’m living in.

For people to just when a woman says she’s afraid for somebody to say, well, they go live someplace else. Okay. You know what’s really interesting is that my friends in Canada said, come live here, we’ve got space for you.

Verde Hines from Elementor said, “Move to the Netherlands. I’ll show you around.” I mean, I mean, me too.

[00:04:25] Speaker B: Me too. I invited you.

[00:04:26] Speaker A: You did, you did. And, and it’s like, I mean, you don’t want to leave your home, right? Like, I know you still have family in Gaza, right? Who are you? Don’t want to leave their homes and you’ve lost family there because this is where you live. I don’t, I don’t want to have to move. But I’ll tell you, the next four years could make a difference. Right? I mean, I don’t know how bad it’s going to get. It’s come to the point where, and you were mentioning this before, there, you know, women have said it here in the United States and I’m sure other places too. My body, my choice. And that’s about reproductive rights, right? We’ve talked about that before. Reproductive rights, the right to an abortion, and the right to health care, IVF, are all things that are part of the Reproductive Rights Project 2025. I admit I have not read it, I’ve only read parts of it. Threaten more and more and more women’s rights here in the United States. Such to the point that there’s this guy who started your body, my choice, and he’s been saying it turns out he is what we call an incel. Right.

Involuntarily celibate. Meaning that no woman wants him.

[00:05:40] Speaker B: Basically.

[00:05:41] Speaker A: Yeah.

[00:05:41] Speaker B: Yeah.

[00:05:44] Speaker A: Incels are dangerous because they think that women owe them. If you sleep with other men, then you’re a. If you sleep with him if you’re a virgin, then you must not be like, they have this crazy thing going on in their head that they should just be able to use you and toss you aside, that you’re nothing but. And I’m going to say it’s going to sound really rude when I say this. So, women, please. A set of holes for their use.

[00:06:10] Speaker B: Yeah.

[00:06:11] Speaker A: Okay. And this is the America I am living in right now. And I know I still have it better than other places in the world. I know that, and I know I’m still privileged. But set that aside for a minute and understand the fact that this is such a paradigm shift here in the United States that it is scary when men are walking around town saying things like, your body, my choice. When men think they can just use you and abuse you, you should not have the right to speak; when they threaten to take away our right to vote in the United States because we don’t have children and then, therefore, we don’t have a stake in our future. When all of these things come together, it’s a very scary place. And yeah, okay, I’m turning it over to you. Then, we’re also going to talk about some social media things. But over to you, Samah.

[00:07:09] Speaker B: No, I understand you fully. And as you said at the beginning, we wanted to talk about something else today, but this is something. We cannot just like let it pass without talking about it because it’s also. I found it very weird. We’re in 2024 in the United States.

We are going back 150, 200 years ago. And this hateful speech for women, I don’t understand. And it also people say, yeah, he can say whatever he wants. Yeah. But he promotes gender equality, he promotes violence, he promotes hate crime.

There was an article about that, of course, your body, my choice. When he said it, there was a 4,600% increase, and he mentioned this phrase the next day. A lot of female, let’s say, influencers on TikTok. There are also some people entering their posts, and they mention my choice in your body. This hateful speech. I don’t understand why this is so obsessed with controlling women, and the United States should be the freed the land of freedom, like I.

How can I say I’m chucked honestly. And I know I feel your pain. I also understand that not everyone wants to leave. This is your country. You were born, you were raised there, you are leaving. It’s. It’s also we. Of course, we are joking about it. But also then it’s everyone’s choice. But you don’t want to leave it for them. And that’s understanding. Imagine if they took back those rules and applied them. That’s your body, my choice. Or the abortion or the productive parts. They control it more and more in another 10 years, hopefully not. We’re going back 300, 400 years ago for women in the States. The only time when only white men with property would have freedom. And for the rest, nobody has freedom or anything to say.

We were. I don’t know, but as human beings around the world, we’re doing really well. I don’t know what’s happening this year. Everyone, we’re going backward. Even in Europe, Hungary, and Poland, some countries are now talking about just banning abortion. And I was like, why are we even talking about this? What’s happened to the CTIS bag? I agree. Everyone has their opinion. Everyone can share it. But your opinion when you start to promote hate and violence and cross the line of the freedom of other people. That should not be allowed if being unrespectful. And the amount of hate, the amount of violence against women, and the hate speech for women. And as you said, this guy, Nick, whatever his last name is, Antonis whatever.

I watched yesterday’s quick interview with him.

I don’t want to say weirdo. Sometimes, weirdos can be good. He just has something wrong with him. I’m pretty sure he’s helped mentally.

He’s not a stable human being, and the words come out.

[00:10:16] Speaker A: Oh, for sure.

[00:10:18] Speaker B: And after he said it only 24 hours, there were 52,000 posts on Facebook mentioning it: My your body, my choice. It’s just so crazy.

[00:10:29] Speaker A: High school. High school men like children in high school. I know that they are on the brink of adulthood, but they are still minors. Boys in high school are saying that now to girls in high school. There have been episodes of that happening, too.

Donald Trump. I don’t even like saying his name.

45. 45. I know the orange. The orange dictator has picked some very strange people for his cabinet. For example, Marco Rubio, Secretary of State, is very controversial. He is very right-wing. Attorney General Matt Gaetz has been arrested and charged with minor crimes.

[00:11:19] Speaker B: Yeah.

[00:11:20] Speaker A: Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, who is anti-vax, who is anti-women, who is, you know, I mean, right. Like all of these kinds of things. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is a person on Fox News. He’s not even a government-type person. He’s like Fox News, which is the worst news station delivering right-wing hate.

What? It doesn’t make any sense, right? None of this makes any sense. And you just got on the list, and I don’t know everybody, of course, but like.

Oh, I just. Yeah, it’s just.

[00:12:01] Speaker B: Yeah, I understand how, at the same time, I know we usually talk about everything related to tech, but this is related to our daily life. It’s related to the future for women in tech and the future of women. Sadly, whatever the United States is doing, other countries will copy. And when we start seeing that crazy thing or putting those people in a position of power, it’s so difficult to fight those things back. Women and people of color fought a lot in the United States for freedom for their to get the rights to get, I’m not going to say full equality, but I felt that everyone was on the way to reaching that goal, and now like it’s so difficult to fight those things back. And I don’t know, it’s weird because when I first heard Kennedy’s last name, I thought he was like Kennedy, you know, like the old Kennedy.

[00:13:04] Speaker A: He’s the bad Kennedy.

[00:13:06] Speaker B: He’s not a good Kennedy.

[00:13:08] Speaker A: He’s not a good candidate. No. So, let’s bring it back to tech. Let me tell you that the Department of Government Efficiency has two people named to it. Vivek Ramaswamy and Elon Musk.

So Elon Musk has been named to the White House as one of the cabinet members for a newly created position.

From what I understand, they never had that on there before.

And let’s bring it back to X for a minute. Formerly Twitter. I liked Twitter. I liked the little blue bird. I liked all of that. Right then, Elon Musk pays 44 billion with a B billion dollars to buy Twitter, renames it X, and makes a new logo with white splatters all over it that looks quite honestly like some man had an accident on it if you will.

Oh, we’re getting canceled today for sure, but no.

Or bird poop. Let’s Say it looks like bird poop. Yeah.

And has turned it into a platform where hate is acceptable.

Where I have reported things before was. Which were hate-centered towards me and got like, oh, this doesn’t have any violations, even though it was a horrible thing that somebody had said to me. Right? And so they’re like, nope, that doesn’t violate anything. And you’re like, are you freaking kidding me? If it had been a man who had reported it, would that have been okay then? Like, would that have been accepted? Because I don’t know. Right.

But honestly, I understand now why. I have been accumulating. What’s the word I want? Cultivating a following on Twitter of over 17,000 people.

How many do I have now? I can never even remember. Oh, 18, 600 followers, right? Yeah, 18, 617 followers on Twitter. X. Whatever.

There has been a huge.

Now, not 18,000, but a huge shift in one week of people leaving or at least adding blue sky to their tech platforms, their social media platforms.

And in one week, I went from about what I say, like, three or three or four followers to 534 followers in less than a week.

Because so many people are like, that’s it. I’m done. I don’t want the hate anymore. Last week, Elon Musk tweeted something out or posted, whatever they call it now, and his bots fact-checked him and said that he was spreading hate and misinformation, crying out loud.

It’s like me coming back and going, no, Michelle, you’re wrong, you know, kind of thing.

And that’s our tech community, right? Like, am I leaving Twitter right now? No, I’m not. Because I’m sharing, I’m sharing good information there. I’m sharing our podcast, I’m sharing hope, and I’m sharing, you know, fun things to try to lift people’s spirits because we. There’s drama happening in WordPress as well, right? And so I want. I want to be the bright light to people in dark times.

It’s hard sometimes, though, when you see so much hate and vitriol on social media like that, right? Like, I hardly post on Facebook anymore because I get people coming out of the woodwork to tell me that I’m wrong or spread hate or whatever. And it’s easy to be. We talked about this last week, depression, and whatever. It’s so easy to be overwhelmed and depressed when. And have anxiety and all of those things. Not only is. Is there seasonal affective disorder, as we talked about? Not only is there drama in WordPress, but my constitutional rights as a woman and a human being in this country might look incredibly different within the next four years than they do right now. And it’s a very scary place to live.

[00:17:23] Speaker B: Yeah. And I’m sorry. That’s why I also know you, even the older woman that I don’t know who lives in the States. also, I am worried about them as women, you know, as sisters.

The thing is, when you were talking about X, of course, it’s the way that they dealt with a lot of wars around the world and stuff like that. For me, it was not fair. And I don’t think Elon Musk is making it the most peaceful freedom of his speech platform. Of course, there is a limitation according to his agenda. Of course, I’m not here the right expert or the right person to say use X or don’t use X. But I will give it a try for BlueSky. Am I saying it’s right, BlueSky? Yeah, just give it a try.
As human beings, we are also the ones giving those people power. They need us to gain power. Which I mean like using X or some stuff. Elon Musk has money if X is losing money. And Elon Musk could not be a powerful person anymore. Also, I heard his debate, and I thought he would be smarter, as he was getting 2 trillion from the federal government’s money. Some experts said that only 15% of the money went to personnel. Even if you kicked all the personnel, you will not save $1 trillion. So they’re common sense. And, and I’m. And I looked at them, and I was worried and scared about the future. What’s going to prank the people in the States, especially women and people of color, is the threat of taking people who don’t have American nationality and kicking them out or the nationality, kick them out. All of this craziness, of course, affects our daily life.

And how can I say if someone made a comment on X for you? He said, I totally disagree with you and their shared opinion. You will be fine with it. And also, sometimes people cannot hide forever under this. They always show the truth themselves. And when they write this comment, this hateful, aggressive, rude comment, or just they want to hurt other people so they can feel good about themselves, and in real life, they will not come there to talk to you face to face about it because, or in a calm way because that I Believe that they hide before the screen. They think that they are more powerful.

Definitely. Yeah. I will definitely try, try the Blue sky and if I like it, I will keep. I will keep X as I said. Yeah. Because that’s how we communicate with the WordPress community.

[00:20:08] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.

[00:20:09] Speaker B: But you will never know in the future what will happen. How Facebook was trending. Not anymore. It can happen to X.

[00:20:15] Speaker A: It could. I have, like, if you go to meet Michelle online, I have links to all my social media there. So now I’m posting to Mastodon, and now I’m posting to Twitter. Now, I’m posting to BlueSky. Now, I’m posting on Facebook and LinkedIn. So, I’m posting the same things pretty much across the board. So when I do my Wednesday posts with all of the jobs, I post them in multiple places so that people who are no longer on X still have the information that I post. I will say about BlueSky because I have only just started to use it, and it works very, very much the same as Twitter. It was founded by somebody who left Twitter after Elon bought it.

And so it works very, very similarly with some, actually some, some benefits that are different from Twitter. So I think you’ll like it if you do try it. I will put, we’ll put my, my link to BlueSky in the show notes, and hopefully, by Friday, you’ll have an account too, Sama, so that we can have both of us linked there if people are interested in following us over there too. So, we’ll continue to post across the board. But yeah, it’s a scary world in which we live. And there will be people who will say, oh, you’re just, you know, you’re being too afraid. That’s not.
None of those things are going to happen. I hope they’re right. I hope the people that say that I’m, you know, crying, you know, too loud and too whatever. I hope they’re right. I hope it doesn’t come to pass. I’m not trying to say this is going to happen, and I. We need it to happen so that women continue. No, I hope they’re. I hope I’m wrong, but it doesn’t look like it. The people marching before he’s even taken the oath of office already feel emboldened to do these things. And so I don’t think I’m wrong. I hope it’s not to the degree that it might be, but I’m Wrong.

[00:22:08] Speaker B: I hope things will be. I always hope for better for the future because it’s also.

It affects our daily lives. I’m speaking as someone who lives outside of the state. It just affects people we love, we care about, and even we don’t know them. It’s also affecting them. It’s sad to see the world going through this craziness, and that’s why we are all educating.

I’ve been educated as my generation to accept others and to be welcoming from the Middle East as saying it. We are not truly open for the LGBTQ+ group, and I’d love to be more supportive and more ally. I believe my mother’s generation and the older generation of me educate us on how to be more welcoming, open, and understanding. And it’s really sad now to see that the young generation are starting to be.

How can I say it? Accepting this hateful speech, this hate, this racism. And so this crazy thing. The things that people work hard for, fight for, and die for are:

I don’t want to say waste, not at all, but it feels like we need to fight harder for it. We need to keep talking about it, raise awareness, and educate people about it more. Yeah.

[00:23:34] Speaker A: Yeah. It feels like one step forward, two steps back. You know, we have claimed these rights, and now we have to retreat a little bit because they’re being taken away from us.

It’s. Yeah, it’s just. It’s really hard.

[00:23:48] Speaker B: Yeah.

[00:23:49] Speaker A: And there’s no. We don’t have solutions. You and I don’t have solutions. But we can continue to talk about things that matter and hopefully be a bright spot. A bright spot for people.

I’m not all doom and gloom. It just feels that way right now. And honestly, we’ve said that if people are struggling, they should reach out to somebody they love, and at the very least, they can reach out to us, and we can help them find some assistance and some help. Because if you’re feeling like I’m feeling, but you’re feeling despondent as opposed to just a little downtrodden, there is hope, and we don’t want. This is not going to turn into The Handmaid’s Tale.

Yeah. I was talking to some friends last week at dinner. I said, let’s face it, ladies, if. If this turns into The Handmaid’s Tale, you’re both Martha’s because we’re all too old to have children now.

[00:24:46] Speaker B: Right.

[00:24:46] Speaker A: I go, you both are Martha’s. But I’m dead because I’m just A drain on society, according to The Handmaid’s Tale. Right. Because I am disabled. And so unless I become an aunt and raise up Handmaids and. Which I would never do. No, I’m gone already. They can be Martha’s, but I’m gone already. So let’s hope it doesn’t turn into anything that. That dire and that.

Yeah. That negative.

[00:25:14] Speaker B: So, I hope the situation will be better and that we continue growing as human beings.

[00:25:21] Speaker A: Yeah.

[00:25:22] Speaker B: And have a better life for the young generation coming and respecting each other and understanding each other more and more. Yes. And it’s. I don’t know; it should be the hateful people. I don’t know why. Maybe we can send them to another planet, and maybe they will want to go live there. Or maybe we can go live in. We can also live on Mars if there are some nice places.

[00:25:42] Speaker A: Anywhere. Anywhere, that’s nice. Yeah, for sure. Maybe we have our own island, like the Amazonian women. Can we do that? Can we have our own island?

[00:25:52] Speaker B: I remember the video. I sent it to you. The one with the sleeping.

Sleep for years and wake up and see what’s happening.

[00:25:59] Speaker A: Yes, exactly. Exactly.

[00:26:01] Speaker B: Yeah.

[00:26:03] Speaker A: Oh, my goodness. All right, well, everybody, try to have a good week. We love you. And ladies, we stand beside you for sure. Yes.

[00:26:13] Speaker B: Yeah.

[00:26:14] Speaker A: And when we say women, we include trans women in.

And everybody that is, you know, underrepresented in some ways. In the things that we talk about. So we love you all.

[00:26:24] Speaker B: Yeah.

[00:26:25] Speaker A: And I am still determining what we’re going to talk about next week. We may. We may talk about what we originally intended to, but the world may be doing things that bring other things to the forefront instead. So.

[00:26:34] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah.

[00:26:35] Speaker A: All right. Until then, we’ll see you next week at Underrepresented in Tech. Bye.

[00:26:40] Speaker B: Bye, everyone.

[00:26:41] Speaker A: Bye.

If you’re interested in using our database, joining us as a guest for an episode or just want to say Hi, go to underrepresentedintech.com See you next week.

 

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to the Underrepresented in Tech podcast, where we talk about issues in underrepresentation and have difficult conversations. Underrepresented in Tech is a free database with the goal of helping people find new opportunities in WordPress and tech.