The Journey of Underrepresented in Tech: Growth, Challenges, and Impact

 

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to the Underrepresented in Tech podcast, where we talk about issues of underrepresentation and have difficult conversations. Underrepresented in Tech is a free database with the goal of helping people find new opportunities in WordPress and tech.

Hello, Samah. Hi, Allie. Hi, Michelle.

[00:00:21] Speaker B: Hi, Michelle. Hi, Samah.

[00:00:24] Speaker A: And for a special way to start the year. Happy New Year.
[00:00:32] Speaker C: You’ll be very happy with it.

[00:00:36] Speaker B: Halfway through January.

[00:00:38] Speaker A: I know, but, I mean, we gave ourselves a little bit of a. I don’t want to say sabbatical, because, like, a month and a half is not really a sabbatical, but we gave ourselves about a month and a half off from recording because life gets crazy through the end of the year and through the holidays and the start of the new year. And rather than make ourselves crazy, we’re like, we’ll be back in January. We literally had intended to start recording last week, but Michelle woke up and was not feeling well. And so she said, can we start next week, Samah? And Samah’s like, absolutely. I’ll see you later. So it all worked out. But I, Michelle, have had the. If you’re listening, it’s Michelle. The distinct pleasure and honor of having worked with two amazing women on Underrepresented in Tech. Allie and I founded this thing back in. In 2019. I think it was Allie. Does that sound right?

[00:01:31] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So it was definitely pre-Covid. So, yeah, our first conversations about it might have been in 2018, but I think it actually came to life in 2020.
[00:01:41] Speaker A: Where we started with a vlog and then went, oh, like, we even were like, vlogs are back. And then we’re like, nine episodes.

[00:01:48] Speaker B: Absolutely not.

[00:01:49] Speaker A: It’s a podcast now. Yeah. And then. And then when Samah joined last year, I was like, let’s bring the video come, you know, part back into it too, because sometimes people, like, watch. And so that’s kind of fun. But, yeah, Allie and I started this thing and kicked it off. If you haven’t heard the story before, we’ll give you the nutshell version. Allie, feel free to chime in with things I’m not remembering, but it started as, like, dming back and forth in Twitter. We had been friends before that, so it wasn’t like, like, hey, I’m this unknown person. But we’re like, hey, I’m getting a lot of people asking me, like, do you know any black people who can speak at this conference? Or do you know any women that could speak at this conference, it’s really heavy. White male tech bro. Kind of. I guess male tech bro is kind of redundant, but you know what I’m saying? White tech bro, balance. And so Allie and I were like, how can we help solve this? And so we started. I love. I love the hubris of the beginning of it. Like, let’s make a spreadsheet of people that we can recommend. Right. Like, it was like, it was. It said such humble beginnings, like, we’ll make a spreadsheet.

[00:02:58] Speaker B: And if I could jump in too, I just want to add, like, the people who are coming to us with that. It was really annoying. But we were. We. We understood immediately that every single time it came from a place of good intent.

[00:03:12] Speaker A: Yes.

[00:03:12] Speaker B: And it came from a place of somebody recognizing there was an issue, which is sometimes the hardest thing to do, and then trying to think of a way to solve it, which is fantastic. And the way that people were trying to solve it was not helpful or sustainable. So we were like, okay, well, how? How can then we add to this, like, sequence of events to solve this problem? I feel like we’ve talked about this a few times, and I. I never want to make people feel like the people who did ask us. I don’t want to shame them or make them feel bad, you know, about.

It was just not the way to do it.

[00:03:46] Speaker A: Right. And it wasn’t that we were upset about it. It’s just that, like, it was consuming a lot of time and as much. And I love that people recognize us as allies. I mean, obviously, you’re a black person, so you’re automatically part of that community. I am as white as they get, and people recognize the allyship in me, which made me very happy, of course, but I don’t know every single underrepresented person who might want to speak somewhere. As a matter of fact, I think the first time we had somebody sign up for the database that neither one of us knew, we started texting each other right away, like, do you know this person? No. Do you know this person? Oh, my God. Somebody signed up for the make that we don’t know. It was crazy. It was a phone call for sure. But a few years into it, Ally, you said, you know what? It’s time for me to move on and do some other things. And I still love this project, and I still want to see it succeed. And, Michelle, I hope you will continue it. And I said I can’t do it alone. So let me think about who I might ask. To join me. And it just. I Was like, I, I want some. Ah. But before I asked her, People have heard this part of the story too, I’m sure. I went to Taco, who was her boss at the time, and it’s no longer with Yoast, but. And said, I really want to ask him about to do it. But Allie and I had to raise funds to sponsor her time in the project because she’s an entrepreneur. She’s not paid by another entity like I am, and we need to raise funds to make sure. And. And Ali, I wish that you had taken all of the money, but you insisted on splitting so much of it with me. And I appreciate that about you, but. But I know. But I really wanted you to sustain me as much as possible. And I think we did.

But I didn’t want to have to do sponsorship and I didn’t want to have to do fundraising. And so I asked. I went to Taco before I asked Samah. I said I’ll only ask her if you can promise me that she can do this part of the job during her 40-hour workweek because I don’t want to ask her to do unpaid labor. And so he said, let me check because we’re not owned by Joost anymore. Let me check with Newfold. And he came back the next day. He’s like, go for it. And two weeks later, she finally found the message I had sent her.

[00:06:03] Speaker B: Replied to me, that’s funny.

[00:06:06] Speaker A: And we got on a call and she cried and I cried and it was all. It was awesome. So I’ve cried with all of y’all. So.

So, yeah, for the last year, almost a year, Samah and I started talking in January. I think we started you in March because I wanted you to have some time to acclimate to the whole thing. And she brought in Allie, who used to do all of our tech work. Bless you, my dear Allie.

But with Samah came some of the resources at Yoast. And so Thijs. Hi. Thijs does our post-production and Samah does a lot of our write-ups. And then she says here, this is what you should post on the social media that I’m not on. And we get that, we get it put out there. So, okay, enough of me talking. I’m just going to turn it over to y’all while I drink some coffee before it gets cold. And I want to hear what your thoughts are. Allie, I want to hear your thoughts first. Samah, we’ll come back to you in a minute. I want to hear Allie’s thoughts on the year that she hasn’t been part of being underrepresented in tech. What you’ve been up to and what do you think of how we’ve taken the project?

[00:07:13] Speaker B: Yeah. I’m so happy that y’all are still running strong. Not that I thought everything would, like, crumble when I left. Right. But, like, there’s a when. When the dynamic of something changes, when the dynamic of a project, especially if it’s just two people, you know, we were doing this very part-time. Right. So when that dynamic changes, like, that can kind of be challenging to find a new dynamic. Right. So I’m so happy that things have continued chugging along. I’m so proud of Samah because I remember when we had you on as a guest before you were co-host and you were so cute and you were nervous and you were like, I don’t really want to do this. Like, I don’t really like speaking.

I’m not a person.

[00:07:56] Speaker A: Yeah.

[00:07:56] Speaker B: You were so, like, hesitant. And I was like, I can’t wait for her to do more things like this so that she can build her confidence and be as amazing as she is out loud. And you are. And like, that is so satisfying and wonderful to watch, like, your growth and putting yourself out there more because it’s super scary to put yourself out there to how you know all these strangers who are listening. I’ve been doing it since I was 5 years old, so it comes more naturally to me. So I try to appreciate when other people haven’t had that experience and they just have to do it. Right. That’s so cool.

What have I been up to? I.

[00:08:40] Speaker A: You just got a promotion.

[00:08:43] Speaker B: Yeah. So I started working.

Sorry, that is my alarm actually to wake me up.

[00:08:51] Speaker A: It’s early.

[00:08:53] Speaker B: Yeah. I started working for a really good friend of mine, Christina Louise Treadwell, who I had met at Wordcamp Miami in 2017.

And we started being. We became friends and we would, like, go to meetups together. Like, we would carpool or we would drive to Word Camp together and stuff like that. And she has been doing web stuff since, like, before WordPress, right. Like, this has been her life forever. And she’s never been super duper-heavy involved in the community stuff the way that we are. But she’s, you know, one of those business owners that relies on WordPress and has built her. Her livelihood is on WordPress. And we were having a conversation last year. I think it was even before I left the podcast because I’ve been with her for almost a year now, too.

And I just, like, I kind of Mentioned like, hey, I am kind of looking for work or I am kind of looking for, you know, a new chapter. And she was like, well, I need someone, I need someone really bad. Like, what? What can we do?

So I just kind of jumped in with her at her agency as a catch-all for anything that needed doing.

I just tried to wear some of the hats because she was wearing all of the hats. So I was like, you need to focus on bigger picture stuff and not be, you know, resizing an image for a client. That’s not what the CEO of an agency should be doing. So I jumped in and I helped her with all of those things. And then it kind of became, you know, we would sit on a call for five hours and talk about strategy or talk about where we wanted the business to go or talk about, you know, we really like this, this thing is weak. We should be working on building this up. And yeah, now I’m the CTO of the company and we’ve been growing, we’ve been hiring. We just had a great interview yesterday.

I’m interviewing people, which feels really strange, but it’s felt really good to be able to work for somebody that I like who also challenges me and holds me accountable and I do the same for her. It’s really cool to work outside of the like, industry part of the community, if that makes sense because we can really specifically focus on the work. A lot of the WordPress community, for better or for worse, right? Like sometimes it needs to be, but a lot of it is politics and you know, discussing the structure of things and discussing how things actually work and you know, the bad parts of things and being able to be removed from that and focus on the, what the community is building, which is the ability for people to build their livelihoods with WordPress being 100% in that every day makes me extremely appreciative of all of the people that I’ve met over the past few years who make this possible. Right? Like, it’s so corny to say, but like every time there is a WordPress update, I get like a little bit emotional because I’m like, so many people worked on this and like, it’s hard and a lot of this work is free and like underappreciated. And I don’t know why I’m getting teary-eyed. This is insane.

But I’ve seen so many of the ugly parts of the community that when I see the positive output and the goal accomplished, it hits me in the feels, so you know, I’m glad that’s the perspective and the experience that I have now.

And then we were talking just before we logged on. Like, what I see of the community is, like, the first couple of posts on my LinkedIn. When I come on LinkedIn to post, like, a newsletter or something, I haven’t been super involved, but, like, it makes me super happy to know that, like, this part of the community, like, underrepresented tech that I put most of my, like, soul into is still, you know, going strong and people are still benefiting from it. Like, that is absolutely amazing. So thank you to the two of you for continuing with it, because I would have been really, really sad. There was. I feel like we had a little bit of a conversation, Michelle, of, like, when I left, of, like, how long can this survive? Like, if. If Samal was not able to help out, Right. Like, would the. Would the project just kind of have to end? And, like, I think we both skirted with acknowledging that as a reality, as a possibility.

So I’m very, very glad that that did not. That that did not happen.

So, yeah, that is mostly what I’ve been up to, is just, like, working and growing my skills. And I haven’t worked at a company like this in a long time where I have, like, co-workers and, like, colleagues. I do a lot of stuff independently.

So it’s really nice to, like, be part of a team again as well and learn from all of these other people. And, yeah, it’s pretty cool. I think that’s it. I think that’s my. That’s my full update.

[00:14:06] Speaker A: So the name of the company you’re at now, I. I never remember.

[00:14:09] Speaker B: I didn’t even say it. It’s.

Christy, you’re gonna kill me. It’s called Web Pro Geeks.

[00:14:16] Speaker A: I always get them in the wrong. I always reverse the order of some of the words when I try to remember. So Christina Louise. Yeah, exactly.

She was actually on the show last year. You recommended her. If anybody’s interested in learning more about her, we’ll put her in the show notes or tag that episode in the show notes. We won’t physically put her in the show notes, but we will tag that episode. I’ve got all the dad jokes this morning. Sorry, ladies, but it.

[00:14:44] Speaker B: It.

[00:14:45] Speaker A: Those. Those early years together were there. We did some bootstrapping, we did some scrapping. We did some, like, really putting it out there. And we suffered a little bit of some pushback from some people who don’t believe that underrepresented people should have a place at the table. And we’re not going to go into a lot of details. We’ve talked about that in the past, but we don’t seem to have, at least not to our faces, a lot of pushback anymore. I think we have shown the sustainability of it. And the people who don’t like us, we just don’t care about the people who don’t like us. They can go attack, you know, themselves or whatever, turn on themselves. The leopards ate my face. That’s my favorite thing to say anymore about like, the people who are like, I don’t understand why it happened this way. The leopards hate my face.

But it’s been so cool, Allie, to watch you bloom and grow after you left the project. And I know that you didn’t leave, leave. Your heart’s still here. You know, you’re still on the About Us page as the co-founder, of the project and those kinds of things.

But bringing Samah in last year allowed me to continue this in a way that has been really sustainable. My biggest fear with you leaving was that I didn’t have the bandwidth and the time. I had the ability, but the time and the energy to take on the parts of the project that you were doing and again, the fundraising part of it. And so when Samah came in and like the first, I don’t know, some. I was like, the first 10 episodes, I was like. And I’ll, you know, Thijs would give me. And I would put it all on the website and I would. And she said you need to teach me how to do that so that you’re not having to do that. And so she took over that part of it. And I felt a little bit guilty since then. She’s like, don’t feel guilty. I like doing it. And I’m like, okay, but if you need me to, you tell me. She’s like, I got it. I’m like, right. So like, basically I show up, I record, I go, hey, Tyce, here’s the, here’s like the, the files. And then she’s like, okay, go throw this on your socials. And I’m like, I can do that. That’s, that’s, that’s what Ellie used to have me do, you know? Yeah, it’s, it’s kind of nice. So I’m gonna turn it over to Samah. Samah, like from that first phone call where I think you were, I don’t remember if you were at your Desk or like, you were on your phone and we were talking. It was night. It was something like that. And like, she’s like, me.

[00:17:26] Speaker C: You.

[00:17:27] Speaker A: You want me to do this? So tell us your experiences from that first phone call until this morning.

[00:17:35] Speaker C: Yeah, the thing is, when Taco reached out, I thought he, like, I did something wrong at work, you know, like, it was weird. It’s like it was late 9 pm like, like, Michelle is trying to reach out to you and you’re not replying to her. So immediately, I open the email. Diversity, Care, and sponsoring. Where. What’s happening? Did I miss something? And then I reach out to you, and, you know, I’m really bad at social media. I’m really bad at Slack, but there’s improvement. Let’s be honest.

[00:18:03] Speaker A: You’ve been doing very well.

[00:18:06] Speaker C: Yeah. And when. When you talk to me, I always, like, now I consider, like, you’re my bestie, you’re my friend. But before, you’re so cool. You know, I was shy even when talking to you. Like, oh, my God, she’s super cool. She’s famous in the WordPress community. And even Ali, we exchanged a couple of emails, but I never saw her in real life. But, like, you’re like two remarkable figures, you know, like, you know, hi, from far away. And when you asked me, I was overwhelmed. I cried. I was so happy.

[00:18:35] Speaker A: And I.

[00:18:35] Speaker C: And I could not believe it. And I called my husband, I called my brother, I was calling my family. And, of course, they didn’t know what I was talking about and why I was happy.

And I immediately just communicated with Taco. And then I like, we have this amazing LT leadership team. They start sending me, oh, congratulations. We’re super proud of you. I still remember the first podcast. I was so nervous, I was sweating, and I was like, doing this with my finger on the table. And Thijs told me later, because they watch it, he told me, stop knocking, stop touching things. And I was worried that, of course, Allie was like, you know, I will never be able to even replace 5% of what she was adding to the podcast. And I was also, I don’t want to say scared, but, like, hey, I’m doing it with Michelle. Like, come on. I have to raise my game. I have to. To do things. And I remember that, for the first couple of months, I was always nervous. Before the podcast, I used to jump, you know, to let go of my energy, and I was like, having this nervousness and. An afternoon and sweating. But after, I recall the last 15 or 17 when I was so relaxed, you know, like, I feel I’m talking with you. And I love all of the topics that we talk about and even our personal life, even the talking about the religion. Controversial, topics about. People have to think about the. The holidays and stuff like that. I was really happy that I was dying to talk to someone about it. I was really happy with how we could reach out and even about the digital gap. And I choose the bear. It’s my favorite episode. Like from our podcast. We choose the bear.

Also, I want to thank you because you make me grow as a person. I notice I am becoming more vocal or stronger. The last six months also added to my personal life, and it’s something. I’m really proud of it. Even now, people ask me what I do at Yoast. I told them, but then I said, “Also, I’m part of a podcast under presented intake.” You know, like, I’m really proud of it.

Of course, when I joined, I checked out what you and Allie did, and it’s really impressive.

[00:21:01] Speaker A: Okay.

[00:21:01] Speaker B: Michelle and I are both crying, by the way.

[00:21:05] Speaker C: No, it’s really impressive.

[00:21:06] Speaker A: Can I wipe these tears? And nobody will notice.

[00:21:11] Speaker C: I admire both of you because you, you. There’s a simple idea. I don’t mean it simple in a way. I mean, it’s like the idea that you’re. You’re not fighting for yourself. You’re fighting from people of color, from all women, from all the underrepresented, whatever the groups are, and you raise awareness, and that’s a pace that you made. You should be proud of it. Like, I’m pretty sure you are proud of it. And I am really happy. It’s one of the moments that made my life really good and made me feel good that I’m doing something really good. I used to be an NGO worker. Now not anymore. I’m. I’m working with Yoast now. And I’m proud of it. But these small things make me happy. Even our talks. And of course, my husband does all of the time he has to listen to them, you know, and you have to give me his comments and his feedback and what he thinks and stuff. And I admire everything, and maybe the words are. Are slipping away from me, but I think this is what you built, both of you are legacies. And I’m really proud of it that I’m part of it. I’m trying to. To help maintain it and let it grow. And I just want to say that this podcast made me a better person and You, Michelle, made me a better person. So I just want to say thank you to both of you. And I think I said it, but I’m going to repeat it again. You created the legacy. Both of you should be proud for the rest of your life with it. And, yeah, and I’m really happy, and I cannot wait. The best is yet to come. And we have a lot of topics too. To discuss, since the world is a little bit crazy.

[00:22:54] Speaker A: It is very. It’s a lot crazy. One of the things that I was thinking about a lot is that you know, we. We talk about the humble beginnings of a spreadsheet kind of thing.

And the whole idea was just, hey, let’s make this thing so people can be found. And it still is that, but it’s grown into so much more than that.

It’s. You know, I’ve talked before. My daughter a biracial woman, identifies as a black woman because that is her color. Right.

She’s half me and half not me and all of 100% her own. So I don’t mean to make it sound like I have influenced her, but she’s gone on to be such a more prominent social justice warrior in the world for lack of a better term. She has inspired me so much not only to be an ally, because I feel like I’ve always had some level of allyship in me, but also to understand true allyship and to raise my allyship and put it out there. And that, combined with the work that Ali and I started, has allowed me to feel like I am doing allyship work and that I am somebody that people can trust in an allyship way.

And so I want to thank Allie for being the person who helped me find a path in this world and in this community where I can be an ally, and I can, you know, put my actions. You know, people say, put your money where your mouth is. Put your actions where your thoughts and your mouth are, even more than whatever money you have in your pocket. Money helps, but actions speak louder than anything you can do with it. With the money in your pocket. And so one of the things that I think that we have done, first with Allie and now with Samah, is practice what allyship is by being a conduit for which topics can be discussed. And the guests that we’ve had can show what we are as human beings, not just Samah and me or Allie. There are a lot of words that sound similar and can do in the world to be better human beings and look out for our fellow human beings, especially those that are underrepresented, and show what representation means and help move that forward.

This past summer, I attended WordCamp Canada, and I, without her permission, took screenshots of some of Allie and my early conversations. Nothing that would be untoward, but like, let’s start a database. Hey, what about if we do this right? And actually, put those in the slides? And then talked about the transition and the work I’ve done in the last year with Sama, and it was the talk on allyship. And I think that that’s at the root of what we do. Ali and I came up with the representation without tokenization. And that’s something we discussed from the beginning because it isn’t like, hey, do you know a black person? So we just don’t have all white people because the optics matter. It’s never been about optics and tokenization. It’s always been that you want to get somebody who’s underrepresented on your stage so you have more perspectives, not so that you have a better optic. And so we’ve talked about that from the beginning, and I think that that’s at the root and at the core of what underrepresented in tech is about, is not just helping people find jobs and helping people find gigs. It’s not just having a podcast so that our voices are heard. It’s really hoping that the topics that we raise, the conversations that we have both on the podcast and in person with others, resonate in a way that can send those ripples out. We haven’t dropped a giant iceberg where it sends a tsunami. It’s not like that we, each person can drop those pebbles in that send those ripples out on that calm pond that do affect the shore on the opposite side. Side. It’s the butterfly wings that start those kinds of.

Those kinds of conversations that are happening out there. And that’s when I see our roles. And I don’t know if you. If you both feel the same way about that, I am so proud of the work that we’ve done and will continue to do. This isn’t goodbye. This isn’t like, hey, we had Allie out so that we can button it up and be done. Because I. And I’ve said this before: I still make mistakes.

I will say something to my daughter. I will send her a meme, and she’ll be like, Mom, have you thought about that from the other angle? And I’m like, oh, shit, no. I didn’t. Okay. I’m glad I said it to you and not to somebody else because I still make mistakes. I’m still a human being. And true allyship isn’t like, hey, I’ve arrived. I’m an ally. It’s continual growth, continual learning, and continually standing by people who appreciate that you’re willing to stand beside them and help amplify their voices and not speak for them. And I’m learning and growing, and I appreciate both of you so much for helping me in that journey. I. You know, somehow, you say that you’ve grown. I’ve grown from knowing you, Allie. I have grown from knowing you. And so I appreciate both of you so, so much. And I. I’m still head over heels with this project. So whoever’s listening, y’all have to listen to my voice a lot longer because I’m not leaving.

[00:28:52] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, this is just. It’s a cycle, right? I think we’ve all grown, learned, and benefited from each other. I feel like a better person knowing both of you.

And, you know, working on the project with Michelle, like we’ve said before, we had. And, you know, still have.

We had a great working relationship. We still have a great personal friendship. Right. Our working relationship. Like, I always appreciated it when you would if you would push back on something that I said. Right? Like, if you would challenge something that I said or if, you know, we would. We would have conversations or whatever would be like, well, I don’t know that I agree with that. Right. Like, and we could talk about that. And that always made me feel so good because one of the worst things I think that can happen in the digital space is ending up in an echo chamber where you’re just hearing your thoughts repeated back to you over and over, which can then reinforce your biases, your prejudices, your preconceived notions, your mistakes. Those things then get further cemented into you, and then it’s way more complicated to change. So whenever you would challenge me on something like a little growth spurt, a little growth moment of, okay, even if we, even if what we talked about, I did end up being right, it just taught me to slow down and think about things a little bit more every time, to try and think of, okay, well, how would. How would someone else think about this? How would Michelle approach this? Because it could be different from how I’m doing it.

And that was always really, really beneficial.

And we always. We never fought. Like, we always did it in an extremely positive way. And that also taught me a lot about that sort of language. Right. Like how to have a disagreement in a professional setting and in a friendly setting where, you know, we’re both still headed toward the same goal.

So. But we’re driving the car together. So we have to drive the car together. We can’t be pulling in a different direction.

So that’s driving.

[00:31:02] Speaker A: The other is controlling the radio.

[00:31:04] Speaker B: Yeah. Sometimes, that’s how it would happen. And that was the other thing, too. Right. It is like they say, like, oh, like marriages are 50, 50. Right. So, like our marriage around underrepresented people in tech, It was, it was never 50, 50. It was sometimes 40 60. It was timed at 9010. Right. Depending on how things had to go, one of us would always pick up the slack for the other person because we knew we trusted each other, that, you know, you would. You can cover for me next week if I need it. So I’ll cover for you now. Right. Like, it was a good setup. And you’re very easy to get along with. I’ll say that. It’s not like it was a challenge that I had to learn to get along with.

[00:31:46] Speaker A: Oh, God. I got.

[00:31:47] Speaker B: I’m sure some. Well, I’m sure Samah can attest to that. You’re very easy to get along with and work with.

And you do make. I genuinely believe this. You improve the lives of everyone you meet. And I’m sure that there are our listeners who will agree with that, who have met you and can attest to that. You improve everybody that you meet, whether they realize it or not. Right. Like whether they realize it’s happening. You improve the lives of everybody you touch and have done.

And I want you always to remember that every day because you have been the.

You have been the glue holding this project together, right? Through different cohosts, different goals, and blah, blah, blah, like you have throughout these years, you’ve been at the center of it. And you should be very proud of that because we’re very proud of you.

[00:32:39] Speaker A: I’m very appreciative and proud of the work we’ve all done together. And yeah, Ellie, from those early days, hey, let’s do something like this. I don’t know if you ever could have conceived what this would grow to be because I didn’t. But I am just like the fact that it kind of has snowballed and taken on this amazing.

And yes, it’s definitely in the WordPress bubble. But it has grown outside there too, and it’s got tentacles into other areas. And we’ve had guests on the show who had apps and worked in tech in different ways. And to me, that’s just an exciting thing to be able to look at it that way.

I will say, Allie, one thing that we do better now that you and I didn’t do is record earlier in the week so we have more time to work on post-production.

[00:33:35] Speaker B: Oh, that’s good.

[00:33:37] Speaker A: That’s about the only thing that I would say that we do better is we give ourselves more time.

[00:33:43] Speaker B: Well, I’m glad. Had to have been the learning experience that you could then move on and say, okay, well, that didn’t work. So let’s do this other thing.

[00:33:51] Speaker A: We would record on Thursday afternoon, and she’d say, shoot, I gotta get this done overnight and publish it on Friday.

[00:33:57] Speaker B: I don’t know why we did that to ourselves.

[00:33:59] Speaker A: I don’t either. But now we record Tuesday morning and give Thijs time to finish everything. And he’s. However, he will be like this afternoon. He’s like, okay, here it is, ladies. And we’re like, okay, well, it’s still not going out till Friday.

[00:34:11] Speaker B: Yeah, but then. But you have it, and it’s ready to go. That’s awesome.

[00:34:15] Speaker A: Exactly. Exactly. So this has been a giant love fest, and we could go on and on and on forever. I would like to ask each of you, and I promise I will come up with one by the time you finish talking. What is one takeaway personally and one hope for the future in this project? And Ali, I will start with you since you’re one of the og. I’m going to mute myself so I can blow my nose, take away from.

[00:34:38] Speaker B: The project or takeaway from this conversation either.

[00:34:41] Speaker A: But I was thinking more along the project. But what but it’s impact to do something like a takeaway, an impact that this project has had on you, and then a hope for the future?

[00:34:52] Speaker B: Yeah, Takeaway.

Bizarrely, my takeaway or how I’m feeling right now is that I want to find a way to participate again. I forgot how much I missed this, and I still care so deeply about this project even though I’ve intentionally been distancing myself from the WordPress community.

This is still my baby. This is still our baby. So my takeaway is that I want to have a chat with you later about what I can do to be helpful.

Because I think we did talk about that at a certain point, maybe, maybe this isn’t completely goodbye, maybe this is just an extended break or, you know, whatever. Whatever it is. And you’ve been so gracious in giving me the time and the space that I needed because not to get too into my old own bullshit, but like, leaving the community felt like a breakup or like a divorce or something, and I. I just needed space. And you and I hadn’t talked in a little while, but, you know, you were there when I texted you, which I knew you would be. So, my takeaway is that I’d like to get involved a bit more if it’s okay with you, too.

And my hope is always that what we’re doing in terms of the podcast or, like you were saying, Michelle, all of those ripples that, you know, other people benefit in actionable, tangible ways. Right. Like we’ve had people reach out and say, I got a job through the database. I know that my boss at Web Pro Geeks has hired people out of our database before and, literally, just the idea of somebody else being able to buy their dinner or pay their rent because we did the work of, of. We did some of the work, right? Of connecting them with the person. Right. It’s always on the person to make that connection and make that connection succeed. But we were able to help that. And so I hope that as the project grows and progresses and survives, that part of things doesn’t become stagnant. Right. Like the database itself still achieves its purpose and connects, you know, more people to more people with every passing month, year, whatever that might be.

So, yeah, that’s. That’s mine. That’s me.

[00:37:26] Speaker C: Nice.

Me. Last year, I will say, helped me raise my voice, but I also love the topics we open and talk about, the people’s feedback, and a couple of the topics. They were close to my heart. Then it’s. It is time to focus on more highlights. I love the fact that also it’s a lot of the feedback that we’re. That I was getting from people that it was. It was like, yeah, we need to think about it. For example, the religious holiday is a big flagship event, and they start thinking about it, and that is something that makes me happy to talk about it.

I learned a lot, and I think I’m still learning, as you said, like for me, what to say, how to say or what to call Those things, and I believe that is a journey like every day you learn a new thing and that’s how life becomes more interesting and interesting for the future. I would love to see us keep the same spirit and the same energy we have. And I know there are a lot of things to improve in WordPress or other places that we’d love to talk about, especially for under-presented people in tech or even outside of tech. Sometimes I know we talk outside of tech, which is also that one. The topics I love have a million trillion topics I would love to talk about. But then I’ll start sharing and spamming you it’s like later. So, no worries at all. They’re coming your way.

[00:39:13] Speaker A: I love it.

[00:39:14] Speaker C: Yeah, I love when Allie said, like to making a difference with the database that people can find a job that they can afford living that they can afford as you say, to pay their bills. I would love to focus more on our focus, or we can have some ideas on how to make the database more visible to highlight it more. Even when we go to work camps or when we share information on how to make people, hey, look at this database, this awesome person and that’s something I would love to work in 2025 with you, both of you. That’s something we can hopefully need to highlight more to create more impact. For me, I’m just like the person who comes late for the party.

But you want to enjoy joining the party. So this is how you see it? No, but that’s something I really love to focus on. And, of course, my brain now has a million trillion ideas. But Yeah, I believe 2025 is going to be great here.

[00:40:17] Speaker A: So yeah, I think so too. For me, I’ve been just so grateful for the work that we do and the fact that it has allowed me to take the stage in different countries and different states to talk about how we can give underrepresented people a voice in the community and within different businesses and organizations. And I’ve been invited to in Asia, for example, to talk about that and in New Jersey, in Phoenix, Arizona, to talk about that and that other projects have sprung up because we started underrepresented in tech. So there’s, for example, LGBTQ press being a direct result of their being underrepresented in tech, giving a talk in Arizona about being underrepresented in tech, and creating spaces like Allie and other people created with black press.

That happened because being underrepresented in tech gave me something I could share with other people in a community and again in Taipei last year. And the fact that this project has allowed those things to grow and happen is just. It blows my mind in a good way. And also, sometimes I sit here, and I think I’m just a middle-aged fat girl sitting in western New York with two cats at night. And yet, I’ve been afforded this voice because of our work, which is recognized as good work.

And that’s not, that’s not a derogatory thing. That’s just a self-realization. Who I am, but that I have a voice that people have listened to worldwide, is the direct result of the work we do here and our hearts for the projects. The project that we’ve built and for the future. I want to see that continue. I don’t want to be the only person that takes the stage to talk about these things. I hope we’re empowering other people to say, you know, and I’ve seen it happen. Like it is happening, but I want to continue to see it grow. People say that this project helped them have the confidence to be on a podcast, stand up on a stage and talk, or even just raise their hand in a meetup and make suggestions about the things that we talk about.

And I will say one of my proudest moments, and Allie, you’ll laugh at this. Came from WordCamp US, not this past year, but the year before. So 2023. And I wasn’t in the room because I had other obligations at that time. But there was a panel from Black Press at WordCamp US that year. And my true. Stevens said that the work that I do is essential. And how he said it was. You all know Michelle Frechette. She’s a white girl, but she’s got a little black in her.

[00:43:22] Speaker B: I thought, that’s my show.

[00:43:25] Speaker A: He wasn’t talking. And he wasn’t talking about blood. He was talking about spirit. And so, to me, that was a proud moment because to be recognized, it’s one thing to have other white people go, oh, yeah, you’re doing really good work. You made me think. But to have the underrepresented people, yes, I’m an underrepresented person too, but I’m talking about underrepresented groups that I’m not a part of. Say, you are making a difference for me and us. That has been incredibly humbling and an honor as part of the work. And I want to see other people have those same experiences. And I’m crying again. So bring it home for us.

How are we going to wrap this up?

[00:44:04] Speaker C: Okay. I want to thank you, Allie, for joining us today and Michelle. It is the best way to start 2025. We could not start in a better way.

Thank both of you. We will stay in touch and wait for the next episode. I’m so nervous. This is my first time wrapping up.

You’re doing great, you know, the out of the blue. I’m proud of myself. So, yeah. So goodbye, thank both of you, and see you next week, everyone.

[00:44:36] Speaker A: See you.

[00:44:37] Speaker C: Bye.

[00:44:38] Speaker B: Bye. Thank you.

[00:44:41] Speaker A: If you’re interested in using our database, joining us as a guest for an episode or just want to say Hi, go to underrepresentedintech.com See you next week.